Kilted encounter with my city's finest

[ChubRock]

"Ve have vays of maaking you tok!" If he was indeed watching you for a few days, he should've noticed the eating and drinking you were doing during your lunch. I love the "Since when is a public library a gov't building?" I also thought police understood the kilting connection, even in Indiana.

My whole life I have and will continue to treat our law enforcement officers with respect, but I certainly expect them to be even more polite. I am THEIR client. I am sure that more than 50% of their day they get crap from the public, but were well within your safety zone. I think they owe you an apology. My $.02

[Edmund L Green]

had i similar encounter when i was on conleave from germany ( im in the U.S.Army). i live in a small town. there is 4 police on the force. while taking pictures of my girlfriend with the bridge in the background and police station behind me, i hear a car come to a screeching halt.. followed by camera on the hood and hands up. now, my girlfriend although an american citizen and former soldier has lived in germany for quite some time.. this didnt help the situation. he went on to tell me i was taking pictures of the police station and the library, which i was not. he then started asking my gf where she was from, why is she in the states, for how long etc etc. she tells him she with me and im on leave. hes telling me to bend over forward with my hands on the hood still and i cant because i had spinal surgery 2 days prior and shouldnt have even been walking around. so i keep telling him no i cant and he keeps telling me im resisting blah blah blah. i show him the my back and bumcheek from the operations and he sees my military id. so then he goes on telling me i should have told him i was a soldier and i should know better than to take photos of govt. buildings. which i told him i wasnt. so basically he sat there and looked through every photo in the memory disk hands me the camera tells me " im lucky" and gets in his car and drives off. what a yahoo.

[Dall_Piobaire]

had i similar encounter when i was on conleave from germany ( im in the U.S.Army). i live in a small town. there is 4 police on the force. while taking pictures of my girlfriend with the bridge in the background and police station behind me, i hear a car come to a screeching halt.. followed by camera on the hood and hands up. now, my girlfriend although an american citizen and former soldier has lived in germany for quite some time.. this didnt help the situation. he went on to tell me i was taking pictures of the police station and the library, which i was not. he then started asking my gf where she was from, why is she in the states, for how long etc etc. she tells him she with me and im on leave. hes telling me to bend over forward with my hands on the hood still and i cant because i had spinal surgery 2 days prior and shouldnt have even been walking around. so i keep telling him no i cant and he keeps telling me im resisting blah blah blah. i show him the my back and bumcheek from the operations and he sees my military id. so then he goes on telling me i should have told him i was a soldier and i should know better than to take photos of govt. buildings. which i told him i wasnt. so basically he sat there and looked through every photo in the memory disk hands me the camera tells me " im lucky" and gets in his car and drives off. what a yahoo.

These are the goons that give the good cops a bad name! My uncle, Irishman in all senses of the word, was a cop his enite working career. The nicest guy you would ever want to meet, but never, oh never give him attitude.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

had i similar encounter when i was on conleave from germany ( im in the U.S.Army). i live in a small town. there is 4 police on the force. while taking pictures of my girlfriend with the bridge in the background and police station behind me, i hear a car come to a screeching halt.. followed by camera on the hood and hands up. now, my girlfriend although an american citizen and former soldier has lived in germany for quite some time.. this didnt help the situation. he went on to tell me i was taking pictures of the police station and the library, which i was not. he then started asking my gf where she was from, why is she in the states, for how long etc etc. she tells him she with me and im on leave. hes telling me to bend over forward with my hands on the hood still and i cant because i had spinal surgery 2 days prior and shouldnt have even been walking around. so i keep telling him no i cant and he keeps telling me im resisting blah blah blah. i show him the my back and bumcheek from the operations and he sees my military id. so then he goes on telling me i should have told him i was a soldier and i should know better than to take photos of govt. buildings. which i told him i wasnt. so basically he sat there and looked through every photo in the memory disk hands me the camera tells me " im lucky" and gets in his car and drives off. what a yahoo.

I hope my question is not too far off the beaten track, but you've piqued my curiosity. If I follow your post correctly, this occured in the US? Since when is it illegal to photograph government buildings in the US? I never received that memo. Is this true? Is this a post-9/11 thing? I know this to be the case in many places in the world where freedom has been sacrificed under the guise of security but please tell me this has not happened in the USA.

[Streetcar]

Yesterday I am sitting in my car, finishing what was left of my drink after eating my delicious fish sandwich, you know, sort of daydreaming while listening to the always delightful Edith Bowman when I hear a knock on my window.

And there's this police officer, the typical courtsies ensue and then asked me if I had an ID

As in Hello, I'm Officer Smith? As any citizen might greet another?

Being that I work as a Security Consultant, and one of the principals in the firm was the previous Police Chief for the city, I am well versed in Civil and Constitutional Rights when approached by police.

Then you're all ready familiar with a Terry Stops and Citizen Contacts.

So I asked him what the problem is and why am I being questioned.

He proceeds to tell me that he has been watching me for a couple of days and that I just sit there watching a government building, so I said 'you mean the public library? since when is a library a government building?'. No answer from him of course.

You asked and he answered. While the library in question may have been privately funded, it is certainly a public building. And before anyone goes down that road, OF COURSE you have a right to be there.

Right next to the library there is a Police station, so cop cars come and go and shifts change all the time.

Perhaps that government builiding?

...So I looked him back in the eye and say something to the effect of 'hard not to look at a building when it is right there in front of me as I parked'

Then he asked me about whether I am a citizen or not (because of my Scotland stickers in the rear window and the kilt) and where do I work.

I asked him whether he had reasonable suspicion that I was doing something illegal, and if not, I was not going to answer those questions. I did however hand him one of my business cards where it clearly details my position, address and telephone.

Would it have been difficult to say, "Hi officer. Just sitting here finishing my lunch and listening to the radio. I like this spot because it's quiet."
If I had been the officer, I certainly would have taken your reponse as both defensive and a challenge. I'd probably ask why you were getting so mad.

Then he asked me something to the effect of 'why are you mad', to which I replied that I wasn't so much mad as I was annoyed at being minding my own business and suddenly being questioned for no reason and treated as a suspect. He then replied something like 'well you can be annoyed all you want, let me see your license and registration', so I gave those to him.

That would have raised any officers suspicion meter quite a bit. And may I respectfully submit that if he had been treating you as a suspect, he would have had you step out of the car, possibly handcuffed and frisked for weapons.

But I digress.
Let's wear the officer's boots for just a moment. An unusually dressed man has been sitting in front of a public building for several consectutive days. It is unknown if he is watching for emergency exits, casing to see when the library is most busy, observing and noting police shift times and travel patterns, waiting for a specific officer or library patron, or just eating his lunch.

Any officer worth half of his salt should recognize this as as suspicious circumstance. Is there a reason he shouldn't just go up and ask, especially after the "typical courtsies?"

Suppose an ex-spouse was stalking his estranged wife. She gets shot outside the library she's working at and it comes out that police had seen a unusually dressed man hanging around outside the library for the past several days, and didn't even bother to contact him? Not arrest him, just ask what was going on?

Hector I like you and enjoy your posts. I'm not trying to antagonize you or anyone else here. But it always galls me when someone is gets offended by a police officer doing his job. The officer doesn't know anything about you. He sees a somewhat suspicious situation, so he takes the least invasive path - walking up and asking what's going on. He's answered with hostility and sarcasm.

As a security consultant, I would think you would realize that an officer tends to hand out what he's been given. If you're rude to a cop, I wouldn't expect him to be exceptionally friendly back.
Professional? Yes.
Polite? Yes.
Friendly? No.

[hospitaller]

He's answered with hostility and sarcasm.

Not sure when exactly my post turned into your barrage of assumptions and what ifs. I simply posted my experience while kilted.

Now, as for my response being 'hostile and sarcastic'? Now THAT one I don't understand.

If exerting my civil and constitutional rights, to you, is hostile and sarcastic....well, that's another thing altogether.

As a security consultant, I would think you would realize that an officer tends to hand out what he's been given. If you're rude to a cop, I wouldn't expect him to be exceptionally friendly back.

Again, I was being rude to the officer in question by letting him know that I am aware of my rights and exercising them?

We must be talking about a different country then.

One of those protections includes me eating lunch for days on end, while wearing my kilt, in front of a library.
Which by the way is NOT a government building.

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Moderators please, as things do tend to happen, this is taking an unintended turn, so please keep an eye on this thread. I'm not requesting it to be closed...but a nudge here and there would keep it in track.

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[Dall_Piobaire]

Not sure when exactly my post turned into your barrage of assumptions and what ifs. I simply posted my experience while kilted.

Now, as for my response being 'hostile and sarcastic'? Now THAT one I don't understand.

If exerting my civil and constitutional rights, to you, is hostile and sarcastic....well, that's another thing altogether.




Again, I was being rude to the officer in question by letting him know that I am aware of my rights and exercising them?

We must be talking about a different country then.

One of those protections includes me eating lunch for days on end, while wearing my kilt, in front of a library.
Which by the way is NOT a government building.

.

Moderators please, as things do tend to happen, this is taking an unintended turn, so please keep an eye on this thread. I'm not requesting it to be closed...but a nudge here and there would keep it in track.

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No one is attacking you, we have all been in similar circumstances. It's just a what if thing! No one is disputing your right to wear what you please or eat what you please where ever you please to eat it!

Speaking for just myself I am just saying that that guys job is to make sure no one takes your head off while you are doing it!

This is the kind of thing that terrorism and hate crimes create, and attitude of distrust towards everyone. Let's not let the bad guys change how we live our lives

Slainte

[Tony Miles]

anyone in here lose any loved ones in 9/11??

[O'Callaghan]

Most people aren't used to being questionned by the police. If we act a little annoyed, it's just because we aren't doing anything wrong!

I had a recent experience myself with police questioning. There are a lot of homeless people near where I work, and I am forever giving them money. One evening after work I rounded a corner and met a panhandler I already knew. As I was handing him some cash, a couple of cops sprang out from nowhere and one of them started asking questions, while the other one brandished a gun.

I was asked for ID and showed it, but told him I didn't think he could demand ID. He wanted to know where I worked and all kinds of other things, including my social security number. I told him I didn't think he had a right to ask that either, but gave it anyway because I wasn't sure. When I said I worked in a law firm he quoted a precedent at me to supposedly justify all this, but when I checked it turned out not to be relevant. Of course, he's a cop, not a lawyer, so no surprise there, but I suspect he knew it didn't allow him to do these things. I'm a patent agent, so not an ace on the criminal side of the law myself.

As Hospitaller obviously already knew, US law only requires that you provide ID if you are in a vehicle, and not otherwise. Apparently, also, I only had to tell him my name and address, and no other info, certainly no social security number or place of employment. I know this now.

I wasn't attired in a kilt, but I do have waist length hair and a beard. It is obvious that the cops first thought that I was buying drugs from the homeless guy. Why they had that particular spot staked out is a mystery, though. If they thought someone was dealing drugs on that corner, then it's pretty clear they had no description.

Maybe some of you are cops. Please be aware that the average person can get a bit irritated when there is suddenly someone waving firearms at us and asking inane questions, and we haven't done anything. If that annoys you, remember it cuts both ways.

[Streetcar]

Not sure when exactly my post turned into your barrage of assumptions and what ifs. I simply posted my experience while kilted.

Now, as for my response being 'hostile and sarcastic'? Now THAT one I don't understand.

If exerting my civil and constitutional rights, to you, is hostile and sarcastic....well, that's another thing altogether.




Again, I was being rude to the officer in question by letting him know that I am aware of my rights and exercising them?

We must be talking about a different country then.

One of those protections includes me eating lunch for days on end, while wearing my kilt, in front of a library.
Which by the way is NOT a government building.

.

Moderators please, as things do tend to happen, this is taking an unintended turn, so please keep an eye on this thread. I'm not requesting it to be closed...but a nudge here and there would keep it in track.

.

Hector, again I am truly not trying to antagonize you or anyone else.

Let's take the police aspect out of it.
If an average citizen walked up to you and said, "I work in the library, and I noticed you watching the building for the last few days and I just was curious who you were and what was going on."
Would your response still be "it's hard not to look at a building when it's right in front of me," then refuse to answer any further questions?
It may not be intended as rude, but would you really interpret it as a friendly or polite response?

All I'm trying to do is show how the officer's thought process might have gone, and why he reacted the way he did.

Again, I'm not trying to upset or accuse anyone of anything, but at the same time, I'd hate to see this turn into some sort of "Those lousy cops!" rant without reason.