unbuttoning bottom button

**English Bloke** · 1st January 10, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

We've already discussed this very topic, but...the tradition of leaving the bottom button undone is of quite recent custom. Obviously older pictures wouldn't show this, as Edward VII hadn't yet eased his waistcoat to accomodate his girth!

I was always told that the unbuttoned bottom button was brought about by King Edward VII's lunch. (Reigned 1901-1910)

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

On advice from my Grand Father, Father, and more than a few taylors and kiltmakers who make highland attire, I keep all buttons fastened on all my waistcoats when wearing the kilt.

When wearing waistcoated suits I have generally observed this bottom button custom but having also worn Mess Kit in a previous life... If you turned up there with your buttons undone you'd be on duty indefinately so I know it's not a hard and fast rule that you MUST leave it undone and it seems quite acceptable to do what ever you like...

Jock?

I believe you have far greater experience in these matters than I therefore in future, when I'm in proper highland attire, ( "If only"

I hear you cry!) I think I'll follow your lead on this. I'll leave the unbuttonedness for my Saxon suited days.

**Jock Scot** · 1st January 10, 02:37 PM

English Bloke.

I know all about wayward buttons from a military angle! I was a product of Sandhurst and my Father and both Grand Fathers were very senior military men! In truth it is all down to personal choice with what you do with your waistcoat buttons and I don't think either way is right, or wrong. I do believe, though, that with Highland attire, the bottom button of the waistcoat done up is more traditional. Is it earth shatteringly important? No it is not!

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 1st January 10, 03:35 PM

Having just Googled "Edward VII", there are only two photographs of him with the bottom button of his waistcoat undone, and one of those shows him seated at his desk. D'ya suppose this bottom button biz is just a myth?

**JSFMACLJR** · 1st January 10, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

D'ya suppose this bottom button biz is just a myth?

D'ya suppose it really matters?

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 1st January 10, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

D'ya suppose it really matters?

I'm with you and Jock on this one!

**ThistleDown** · 1st January 10, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

English Bloke. I do believe, though, that with Highland attire, the bottom button of the waistcoat done up is more traditional. Is it earth shatteringly important? No it is not!

Reading this he smiles and nods. He has had a fine evening meal and wine, conversation and port with excellent friends. Now, in comfort, he shifts his sporran leftwards, thumbs open his waistcoat's bottom button, lowers his whiskered chin to his chest, rises leaward to gently pass a puff of wind, sighs in satisfaction and drifts away whilst the balls chink in the backrground.

**OC Richard** · 2nd January 10, 07:08 AM

My bad, I editied my original post because I took a better look at old Hugh Montgomerie there and the bottom of his waistcoat is perhaps being covered by the cantle of his sporran, making that painting inconclusive.

But I do have a pair of watercolours of Highland soldiers, a sergeant and an officer, from the 1780's, and both show the bottom button buttoned.

**Asser 1** · 2nd January 10, 10:38 AM

I tend to agree with others in that in the end it probabaly really doesn't matter but I will throw in my two cents anyway.

I think leaving buttons unbuttoned is a sign of being in the know and entirely comfortable in your clothes. It is maybe even a touch of the elegance that comes along with the non-chalant details. I liken the the bottom couple of buttons on the waistcoat to leaving a button unbuttoned on the functioning button cuff or leaving the bottom button of a 2 on 6 double breasted jacket unbuttoned or not buttoning all buttons on a 2 or 3 button jacket or not wearing matching tie/pocket silk sets. I think it gives a sign that you are comfortable in these types of clothes and don't feel like you are in a straight jacket.

How many guys have you seen at a wedding or funeral that dragged their suit out for the first time in five years, buttoned both buttons on the two button jacket and looked like their suit was some sort of torture device?

In closing, wearing clothes with a touch of personality and style is more than just putting them on.

**Jock Scot** · 2nd January 10, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Asser 1

I tend to agree with others in that in the end it probabaly really doesn't matter but I will throw in my two cents anyway.

I think leaving buttons unbuttoned is a sign of being in the know and entirely comfortable in your clothes. It is maybe even a touch of the elegance that comes along with the non-chalant details. I liken the the bottom couple of buttons on the waistcoat to leaving a button unbuttoned on the functioning button cuff or leaving the bottom button of a 2 on 6 double breasted jacket unbuttoned or not buttoning all buttons on a 2 or 3 button jacket or not wearing matching tie/pocket silk sets. I think it gives a sign that you are comfortable in these types of clothes and don't feel like you are in a straight jacket.

How many guys have you seen at a wedding or funeral that dragged their suit out for the first time in five years, buttoned both buttons on the two button jacket and looked like their suit was some sort of torture device?

In closing, wearing clothes with a touch of personality and style is more than just putting them on.

I agree. There is alway room for a spot of personal flair when it comes to one's civilian attire.

**Ancienne Alliance** · 2nd January 10, 05:34 PM

Oh no ! not again...

no no .... maybe next month shall I have the time and energy...

do as you please for now !

no one should die of it, no ?

R.I.P