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  1. #11
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    The Thread has been reported and moved to the Cooling Off Corner while the Moderators take a look at it.

  2. #12
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    No violations found by the Modertors. Thread returned to the open forum

    Ern for the Moderators

  3. #13
    macwilkin is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mael Coluim View Post
    No violations found by the Modertors. Thread returned to the open forum

    Ern for the Moderators
    A tip of the (diced) bonnet to the Moderators for returning this thread to the forum!

    T.

  4. #14
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    Talking

    Many thanks to the moderators. Well- I'm happy to hear all this info. about this traditional headwear. This is a subject I've always thought about. I agree that they are not very practical but the glengarry looks sharp. I'm the type that wants to gain as much knowledge about something as I can before I purchase it. Thanks guys.

  5. #15
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    I had always heard that pipers were often hired for the regiments, which is why they (sometimes) wear different kilts (usually Royal Stewart) and plain glengarries. While any ol' lug could play the drums, so those fellows were pulled from the regiment. I don't think there's any truth to that, but thought I'd throw it out there.

    I did play in a police pipe band and they followed the Black Watch precedent of plain glengarries for pipers and red and white diced for drummers. I always thought the whole band should have had black and white diced glens, since police have black and white dicing on their hats (or is it navy and white?).

    Here is what our own OCRichard wrote on the subject in a thread of the same topic on a pipe band forum some time ago:

    Dicing first developed on the Scottish bonnet (what today we call the Balmoral bonnet) in the 18th century, before either shakos or Glengarries were invented.

    Seems that the headband of the bonnet would have a ribbon passing through it (to adjust size). This ribbon was tied in the back (which is why all forms of Scottish headdress including the feather bonnet have ribbons in the back).

    At some point in the 18th century slots appeared in the bonnet's headband, the adjusting ribbon thus passing in and out of view. When the ribbon was a contrasting colour to the headband, a sequence of squares or dices was the result.

    That's the story, anyhow. Is it true?

    If so, one would think that there would be a period when one-row dicing was the norm, which might then expand to two rows, then finally three.

    But in looking through a large number of 18th century illustrations I see only bonnets with no dicing up through the 1750's, then in the 1770's bonnets with the normal modern three rows suddenly appear. These are worn both by civilians and military.

    Shakos were not adopted until after 1800.

    Glengarries were invented by an officer in the Cameron Highlanders in the 1840's, and then spread to the other Highland regiments.

    Each regiment varied as to dicing:
    Black Watch and Cameron Highlanders, and pipers in ALL regiments: no dicing
    93rd (later Argyll & Sutherland) Highlanders: red and white dicing
    Gordon Highlanders, Seaforth Highlanders: red/white/green dicing

    Red/white/black dicing is a modern civilian thing.

    In The Highlanders of Scotland, a series of portraits done in the late 1860's, the vast majority of the bonnets show no dicing. However one Balmoral has the normal modern three-row dicing, and one has ONE row of dicing. Interesting.
    Kenneth Mansfield
    NON OBLIVISCAR
    My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)

  6. #16
    macwilkin is offline
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    I did play in a police pipe band and they followed the Black Watch precedent of plain glengarries for pipers and red and white diced for drummers. I always thought the whole band should have had black and white diced glens, since police have black and white dicing on their hats (or is it navy and white?).
    Depends on the police force. The City of London Police wear red and white dicing on their peaked caps, while other police forces in the UK use black and white. Blue and white police dicing is most commonly found in Australia and New Zealand.

    Sir Percy Sillitoe, who was the Chief Constable of the City of Glasgow Police, is credited with the adoption of dicing for peaked caps in 1932. Sillitoe believed the dicing would make officers more visible in the evening. The pattern is known as "The Sillitoe Tartan", and is worn by several departments in Illinois and Pennsylvania.

    T.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer View Post
    While any ol' lug could play the drums, so those fellows were pulled from the regiment. I don't think there's any truth to that, but thought I'd throw it out there.
    'Course it's true Kenneth! (Had ta tweak ya.)

    Anyway, for the OP, as I said before, wear what you like. Just be prepared for some people to have their own opinion as to your 'right' to wear it.
    John

  8. #18
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    Deledted
    Last edited by Grae; 5th January 12 at 12:55 AM.
    Kilt on with Confidence

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grae View Post
    A reference was made to Elizabeth II being the current representative or descendant of the House of Hanover (the German Royal line that started with George I who could not speak English) who were brought in to prevent the return of the "true" Stewart line.
    Actually Her Majesty is a descendant of James VI (I of England) and his wife, Anne of Denmark. Their eldest daughter (older sister of Charles I) was the Princess Elizabeth who married Frederick V, King of Bohemia. Their daughter Sophia married Ernst August of Hanover, and it was her son, George, who was later King George I of England and Scotland (as well as being King of Hanover).

    Through her mother's family (the Bowes-Lyons) Her Majesty has even closer ties to Scotland.

  10. #20
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    Last edited by Grae; 5th January 12 at 12:54 AM.
    Kilt on with Confidence

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