Traditional traditionalists?

[Bugbear]

MacLowlife, old friend, you have much more wisdom and class than I. If you consider something to be traditional, then, I would suspect, it is traditional, and the rest is all in the ferocity with which you defend it.

Your humble servant, The Bug.

[OC Richard]

It's one of those things that's difficult to pin down into concise wording, but everyone knows it when they see it!

I would say "traditional" would have as a starting point a traditional kilt (wool, tartan or selfcoloured, made in the traditional manner), a traditional style sporran, traditional style kilt hose/shooting socks, and shoes, shirt, neckwear, and outerwear which were not overtly contrary to tradition.

I say all these things because you can have a tartan kilt, sporran, and knee socks all of which are quite untraditional.

[ccga3359]

I move my opinion of "traditional" further than Panache. Of the two pictures that he posted neither look is what I consider traditional. To me both are modern looks, Woodsheal is definately modern casual. Matt, although very often dresses in a definate traditional manner, is dressed for comfort. Traditional until we get to the shirt - short-sleeved, open neck, still dapper as always, but not complete enough to pass my muster.

My definition of traditional dress would require "effort and ritual" to get dressed and not just pulling any shirt off of the hanger (no offence to Matt). No "warm weather" dress, a jacket must be worn, (tweed only), long sleeve shirt and tie. Warm weather would omit the waistcoat. Proper footwear would be a pair of all leather dress shoes. In short, any look influenced by the climate of any country that is not Scotland probably wouldn't fit in with that tradtional look.

That being said I like the term "modern traditional". As the kilt has evolved so should the look. If we go with a PV kilt, leather kilt jacket, open neck shirt and comfortable rubber-soled shoes, it may look "traditional" but let's not mistake it by calling it such.

To steal a quote from Justice Potter Stewart "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description (traditional kilted look); and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it

[MacLowlife]

I think I can allow a jacket that is made to resemble tweed, just as I can allow a kilt that is made to resemble wool. And yes, I know I have used terms of varying specificity. I think "silk tweed" is probably an inconsistent term, if not quite a contradiction, but I think some silk jackets or silk-and-wool ones look quite good with the kilt and manage a little warm weather texture.

I am still wondering about the tie. I would love to hear from someone with a little historical knowledge. Many of MacLeay's highlanders wear small black bow ties. Some wear cravats. Some wear other bows and assorted neckcloths and a few (mostly pipers) wear what look like modern four-in-hand neckties. So when did the necktie come to be a necessary part of traditional highland dress?

I recognize that as the kilt has become associated with special occasions in Scotland, a tie only makes good sense, but I wonder if that has been the case for much more than 50 years.

I have been allowing my own chin whiskers to grow and I take inspiration from MacLeay's William MacDuff, whose beard is so long and full, you have no idea what he is wearing around his neck.

[rondo]

I have been allowing my own chin whiskers to grow and I take inspiration from MacLeay's William MacDuff, whose beard is so long and full, you have no idea what he is wearing around his neck.

Me too...for 12 years now...and got me drummed out of the TCHD forum... I see no need to wear something that will never be seen...so no longer wear ties...most of my shirts have mandarin collars.
Rondo

Okay...so I got caught lurking in the Traditional forum...lol

[davidlpope]

I move my opinion of "traditional" further than Panache. Of the two pictures that he posted neither look is what I consider traditional.

In short, any look influenced by the climate of any country that is not Scotland probably wouldn't fit in with that tradtional look.

I agree. Traditional Highland Civilian Dress (THCD) is just that. Civilian kilted attire as it is traditionally worn in the Highlands. Although there may be some adaptations for warm weather in the US- forgo the jacket, roll up the shirt sleeves a bit, perhaps lose the necktie on really hot days- much variation from what is traditionally worn in the Highlands would make it a different animal.

Here's an old thread that might be of interest:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...59/index4.html

[Mickey]

Here is how my son went downtown this evening to catch a friend's band play. Not something I could get away with, for sure.

[Bugbear]

MacLowlife is growing a jabot.
I consider traditional to be a world view and attitude; the attire follows.
Good luck, MacLowlife.

[ccga3359]

Every man wore a tie up until the 60's & 70's regardless of choice of clothing. Just as every man wore a fedora. Not that I have anything against a powder blue leisure suit and bright orange ascot!