PC Waistcoat Options: 3 vs 5 Button

[MacLowlife]

I think it's the GORGE.

[rondo]

I happen to like the 5 button with a rouche tie. I'd wear it.
Rondo

[JSFMACLJR]

I think it's the GORGE.

Yes, exactly! Thank you!

[Chas]

In my opinion, the coatee does not lend itself to a five button waistcoat. You will not that the lapels of the coatee are cut low ( is this called the gore? ). The waistcoat should respect this, and by wearing a high buttoned waiscoat, the shirt front that should be showing is covered up. To my eye, something looks amiss.

I believe also that neckties with evening dress ( instead of bowties ) are a fad and look out of place.

Just my 2p's worth!

I agree.

I was always given to believe that the PC is a one trick pony, that is to say black tie only. And by black tie, I mean bow tie, low cut (3 button) waistcoat and worn in the evening only. Not with long tie (rouche or otherwise) and not with a high cut (5 button) waistcoat.

A total package and not a kit of parts to mix and match.

When I see someone wearing a PC or tuxedo in an 'experimental' fashion, my first thought is that they don't know how to wear it properly.

[rondo]

Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.
Rondo

[MacLowlife]

Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.
Rondo

Absolutely. And if people always dressed the way they always had, we'd be naked. But this is one of those big dividing lines- how one wears the Prince Charlie coatee, if at all. Everyone else has been polite or at least discreet about the ruche-scrunchy tie, which I can't stand. I am going to go wash my eyes from having looked at it. On the other hand, for those that like it, I can only say "Go ahead..." The PC is a sharp looking jacket. It calls to mind 19th century dress military uniforms without looking "antique". As we have seen, different people have different ideas about how to wear it. But it is always a formal jacket.

I have read that in some quarters, the idea of wearing a smoking jacket or dinner jacket for dinner is regaining popularity- that people in some house parties actually dress for dinner. But the modern twist is that the gentlemen wear their velvet jackets without ties. I doubt I will ever be at such a table and my opinion will not affect those who will, but it seems silly to me. They manage to get all of the affectation and inconvenience with none of the glamour. They are entitled to do as they wish, too.

[EagleJCS]

John, I almost always wear a three or four button evening waistcoat with a dinner jacket, instead of a cummerbund. I wouldn't call wearing a waistcoat with a tuxedo a "trend", unless it is one of those horrid looking waistcoats with five buttons favoured by the Hollywood set!

Sandy, I only mentioned it as a 'trend' because about 30 years ago (when I started noticing such things), most formal-wear rental shops were offering cummerbunds or the low-gorge "backless" vests (vestlets?) and apparently had been for several years. Very few formal 5-button vests were seen except as costume bits for (Western) re-enactors and even three-piece suits were on the way out. Then, about 10-15 years ago when my best friend and my brother were getting married, the rental places had switched to the high-gorge 5-button vests and cummerbunds were passe'.

[OC Richard]

If we take "tradition" into account, yes, when the "coatee" or "Prince Charlie coatee" was introduced in the early 20th century it was always associated with a low-cut waistcoat, matching the jacket, or red, or tartan (here in the 1936 Anderson catalogue)



and here in a Peter Henderson catalogue from the 1920s (though the waistcoat has five buttons!)



When I first saw Kilt Hire places pairing Prince Charlies with the waistcoats from Argyll jackets it looked clumsy and out of place, apparently an ad hoc measure to allow them to only have to keep one style of waistcoat in stock.

But... I picked up a used PC on Ebay a while back, which didn't come with a waistcoat, and when I wore the PC to the Black Watch concert I had to press my ordinary waistcoat into service. I concluded it wasn't such a bad thing after all (especially as I wore a long tie, which I prefer)

[vdubguru]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and input! Glad to see the question has created such a great conversation.

I've decided to go with the "traditional" 3 button as suggested above since it will be used primarily on formal occasions, for the next year anyway. After that, I'll likely invest in a less formal Argyle or Crail option.

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting the phone call from the Kilt Maker to tell me it's ready to pickup... any time now Pictures soon!

Thanks again!

[Liam]

Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion.
Rondo

And the world is a better place for it, as long as we respect their right to do so.

Slainte...Bill