Kilts and Austria

[MartinGrenoble]

...do we really want kilt wearing promoted with bald faced lies and false history designed simply for commercial purposes? (...)

Ever come across any advertizing that was truthful anywhere?
There are far worse lies around than this one.

Some people use internet forums to promote their wares, some make up stories, and -- as already pointed out -- there was no pretense at all that the Austrian kilt (kitl) history was authentic.

Martin

[Raphael]

This again? This is ridiculous. Some here are saying, "oh well, at least he is promoting kilt wearing." But do we really want kilt wearing promoted with bald faced lies and false history designed simply for commercial purposes?

That won't be the first time a kilt maker uses bald faced lies to sell his kilts..

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Ever come across any advertizing that was truthful anywhere?
There are far worse lies around than this one.

Some people use internet forums to promote their wares, some make up stories, and -- as already pointed out -- there was no pretense at all that the Austrian kilt (kitl) history was authentic.

Martin

The fact that this crop of lies is not quite as bad as some other crop of lies doesn't make it sit any better with me, to be quite blunt. And whether the original intent was to create a tongue-in-cheek "fake history" that people could laught at, or intentionally mislead people, the end result is still the same -- people are being misled. I remember when these articles first came out back in 2004 and people were emailing me about them and many actually believing them. I read the promotional material myself and recall nothing written in the material that would make me believe it was all supposed to be a joke.

You must understand that I spend a good deal of my time talking with people about the history of the kilt. By and large, people interested in the kilt are interested in knowing the accurate history of the garment. And as you can imagine a lot of the education I do involves dispelling people of various myths and misconceptions they have picked up over the years. So material that adds to those myths gets my ire up, I admit.

The Welsh Tartan Centre originally had a "history" section on their web site that made the claim that the Welsh wore kilts 2000 years ago (in district tartans, no less). The history they gave was completely false, and designed to mislead people into buying their product. Eventually, I am happy to say, that section of their web site was taken down. They have found a way to do business and promote their new tartans without intentionally misleading people. I can only hope that this Austrian kilt business can find a way to do the same.

[Morris at Heathfield]

The saga continues:

Scotland Claims To Have Invented Lederhosen

(Sorry for the sensationalist headline, but my copy editor insisted I use it. )

[MacDhunadh]

Hi there!

Rettl Kilts are not archeological, only one tartan is celtic. But Rettl designed som tartans for some of our 9 austrian districts, the first one was carinthian, then the styrian, Salzburg, Tyrol and Vienna, 2004 he designed the celtic tartan and 2 years ago he designed the bavarian tartan for the Bavarians.

Rettls kilts are not made of bad fabric, it's strong and very good. He makes 6 yards and 8 yards traditional kilts with 3 buckles and kiltstraps and the fabric is pure sheepswool. He uses 13 oz for the 6 yard kilts and 16 oz for the 8 yard traditionals. And i think he uses 11 oz fabric for his Kampf ( fighting ) Kilts for the highland games. Rettl kilts are knife pleated, most of them pleated to sett, but for customers also pleated to stripe. The celtic tartan you can buy as belted plaids, but also as traditional kilt. But you can't buy Rettls tartans per yard to make yourself a kilt, he doesn't sell the tartan, because he has the monopole on his tartans and thinks, he will loose money, if everybody would sew his kilt himself. This is a very stupid attitude, because this was the reason, that i've started to sew my kilts myself and buy the fabric somewhere else. What Rettl makes, is contrary, but not a good business for him ;o).

Rettl sometimes also sells kiltpins and they wear it on the outer apron, if they are told the right way. Most of them wear swordpins or pins of celtic design.

@Morris: Yes, that's the tragedy, that some people take this Rettl pseudo history as a seroius fact.

It's ok to promote kilt wearing, but as Matt Newsome has written, not this way, only to make much money and tell everywhere this silly story about the kilt wearing celts in Austria, many centuries before the ancestors of Scotland did wear the belted plaid. I can't find this Rettl interview, maybe it was youtube, where he tells with a smile, that it's not so serious, but a very good practice to earn money and much people now like to wear the kilt.

Greetings from Austria,

MacDhunadh

[Morris at Heathfield]

Yes, that's the tragedy, that some people take this Rettl pseudo history as a seroius fact.

Do you know of people in Austria who take seriously the idea that the kilt was "invented" there, or is it pretty much just people in the English-speaking world who were misled by the irresponsible reporting from a couple of English-language news sources? (Both apparently yanked the stories when their errors were pointed out, but various web sites still contain links to and commentary on the stories, which is how this whole thread got started.)

[Mipi]

Maybe it's not so important who invented kilt, at least from my point of view. I can even tolerate the fact, that this story is (ab)used for marketing (we can see adds each day telling us that they can remove all stains with no problem and know that this is not true; well maybe only the scissors can).

If we go far enough in history, we could find Cetls living in Slovenian teritory, too.

For me, it's more important that the kilts are good and used in right manner. And that the knowlage on kilts spreads.

[Galician]

Did anyone follow the links to the Alpine Highland Games? They have lots of lovely young Austrian(?) girls in kilts engaged in tug-of-war among other competitive sports.

Maybe something like this here would get more people (read men) out to Highland Games!

[MacDhunadh]

Hi together!

@Morris: Yes, i know some people who believe in this story. Last year i've seen the alpine highland games in tv. It was only 15 minutes, but all the the carinthian competitors told this crazy story as a true fact, this people believe in it. Not everyone does, but much do. It was the bavarian TV and some bavarian competitors were interviewed too and they told the same story. And the most stupid thing at austrian highland games is the fact, that it is forbidden for competitors, to wear underwear because this isn't authentical. what a rubbish if you don't wear underwear it is regimental, that's ok, but if you come to original scottish highland games, the competitors wear boxer shorts under their kilts, nobody is without underwear. I don't know how it is in the Unitedt States, or in Germany, but in Austria underwear is forbidden and if they catch one of the competitors with underwear, they hold him and take away his pants and burn them and then they call this stupid action authentical. But it's only regimental and the original highland regiments wear underwear since 3 or 4 years or longer.

Most of the austrian kilt and highlandfans don't know anything about scottish history, or the history of the kilt and what's authentical and what is not. So people like Rettl can tell them anything, they will believe it.

@Mipi: Yes, this are my words, it's good to spread the knowledge about kilts, but it must be the true knowledge and not some stupid stories. The Celts lived nearly everywhere in Europe, so in Austria and Germany too, but to tell everyone, the ancient Celts 2000 years ago and earlier did wear the kilt, only to make a good business isn't very fair, because as you can read here, much people believe this rubbish and that's no serious history.

@Galician: In Austria you can find at nearly every highland games some nice kilted girls and at the alpine games, where all the austrian competitors meet every year, you can see dozens of this girls :o). But you also will see much photographers, who hope, that the girl fall to the ground during tug-of-war *g*. Our girls are also forbidden to wear underwear. I always think, that's the whole malicious trick behind all this "authentic" story. They all have seen to much Braveheart and think Hollywood is an authentical source ;o).

Ok, that's it for now ;o)

wish you a nice weekend,

greetings from Austria

MacDhunadh

[Morris at Heathfield]

I don't know how it is in the Unitedt States

Since, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words:



I took this picture myself at the Highland games in Arlington, Texas. All the Highland athletes appeared to be wearing similar undergarments. And Highland dancers are required to wear black briefs.

but in Austria underwear is forbidden and if they catch one of the competitors with underwear, they hold him and take away his pants and burn them and then they call this stupid action authentical.

If that's going to be the case this year, I'm not sure why Mr. Rettl is so eager to have Scottish competitors at the games. I doubt very many Scots would be willing to defer to his or any other Austrian's expertise on matters of Highland dress.