Saw Pipe Major insignia on Prince Charlie Jacket

**beloitpiper** · 29th December 08, 12:00 PM

Yeah, I'm only 21, and I dress pretty conservatively! My love for tweed and tartan has people saying that I dress like my grandpa...

**puddlemuddle** · 29th December 08, 01:34 PM

ok,
well,
after watching the video..took me a little longer to get home..had to meet my wife at the doctors with our 21 monthy old who has an ear infection...that IS a mess Jacket...I guess I should really double check what I am asking before posting...sorry

Chad

**Bugbear** · 29th December 08, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by puddlemuddle

ok,
well,
after watching the video..took me a little longer to get home..had to meet my wife at the doctors with our 21 monthy old who has an ear infection...that IS a mess Jacket...I guess I should really double check what I am asking before posting...sorry

Chad

I like the idea of wearing a mess jacket with formal Highland attire, but not with the insignia duhicky. It's not as complicated as a PC in my mind.

So, there are choices and alternatives available without looking "stupid."

**Carolina Kiltman** · 29th December 08, 06:14 PM

While the "rules" have changed a great deal since the 60's, there is still a significant segment of our society which demands, not asks, that the "rules" be followed. I had constant dealings with them before I retired, and always dressed to their standards. (I was asking for money!). My general rule was; It is better to err on the side a "traditional" than go too far the other way. (I always a wore a three piece outfit, not always matching colours but always tried to look "conservative" doing so.)

To my mind (and taste) there is nothing more traditional than the "tank". That is why I think the piper in question is a bit overdone. Especially with the rank on the sleeves. If it were a military mess jacket, then the rank would be appropriate. Is it?

**Peter C.** · 3rd January 09, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Carolina Kiltman

While the "rules" have changed a great deal since the 60's, there is still a significant segment of our society which demands, not asks, that the "rules" be followed. I had constant dealings with them before I retired, and always dressed to their standards. (I was asking for money!). My general rule was; It is better to err on the side a "traditional" than go too far the other way. (I always a wore a three piece outfit, not always matching colours but always tried to look "conservative" doing so.)

To my mind (and taste) there is nothing more traditional than the "tank". That is why I think the piper in question is a bit overdone. Especially with the rank on the sleeves. If it were a military mess jacket, then the rank would be appropriate. Is it?

Considering how many pipers dress, with plaid, broach, cross belt, feather bonnet and dirk, it seems a little strange to suggest that a piper "is a bit overdone".

It certainly looks like a mess jacket, and if it is and if the gent is still in the military, then it is not just appropriate to wear his rank on the mess jacket, it is a requirement.

Peter

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 3rd January 09, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Peter C.

It certainly looks like a mess jacket, and if it is and if the gent is still in the military, then it is not just appropriate to wear his rank on the mess jacket, it is a requirement.

Peter

It looks like a mess jacket, and I'm sure that was the intent-- to convey the spirit of a military piper-- but it isn't a regimental mess jacket. It appears to be an Eaton jacket with a shawl collar, worn with a civilian kilt, civilian sporran, and civilian waistcoat. Admittedly the jacket is adorned with all sorts of military insignia, but even so it is merely a costume, worn to enhance the visual impact of the (admittedly world class) performance. There is a world of difference between performing on stage and wearing a military uniform. That being the case, I think the performer has struck the right balance in selecting his costume.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 29th December 08, 07:44 PM

Having just viewed the video of Gordon Walker (thanks for the link, Sandy)-- who in my opinion may just be the best piper on the planet-- it seems pretty obvious that he's wearing a costume-- totally appropriate for a stage appearance, but not to be emulated for evening attire.

**Bugbear** · 29th December 08, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

Having just viewed the video of Gordon Walker (thanks for the link, Sandy)-- who in my opinion may just be the best piper on the planet-- it seems pretty obvious that he's wearing a costume-- totally appropriate for a stage appearance, but not to be emulated for evening attire.

I just listened to the video too. Wow, the grace notes!

**Bugbear** · 3rd January 09, 01:13 PM

Someone said that mess jacket looks like a PC. Is a mess jacket worn with a waistcoat?

Just trying to extract information from the conversations...

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 3rd January 09, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Someone said that mess jacket looks like a PC. Is a mess jacket worn with a waistcoat?

Just trying to extract information from the conversations...

Short answer is "yes". Mess jackets usually have the body in one colour (often red in the British army) with the lapels (and sometimes the cuffs) in a different colour, defining the regiment. Waistcoats are often black, although red is by no means uncommon. A few mess jackets fasten at the neck, similar to a Sherrifmuir jacket, and have a "bib" underneath, again in a contrasting colour.

Costello & Son in Ilford, London, supply much of the mess dress to the British forces (including RAF, Royal Marines, Royal Navy, the Royal Household, etc.), and examples can be seen on their website.