Black Tie Event - Shoe Advice Needed

[artificer]

This opinion has been expressed several times in this thread, or rather, that wingtips (?) aren't good for dancing...

Would you guys mind explaining why?

I believe the general thought is that wingtip brogues are nearly always too heavily built a shoe, both in overall weight and in an 'inelegantly thick' sole.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

This opinion has been expressed several times in this thread, or rather, that wingtips (?) aren't good for dancing...

Would you guys mind explaining why?

A good formal shoe is like a classic Jaguar XKE while a wingtip can best be compared to a Land Rover. Like the XKE the formal shoe should be light, and allow you to move with consummate ease through the crowded conditions of a dance floor without bumping into anyone.

The problem with most wingtips is a combination of the weight of the shoe, the thickness of the sole, and the extra width of the sole extending beyond the upper portion of the shoe itself. In short they are designed to be "Land Rover" tough.

The weight of the wingtip makes it more difficult to lift the foot, while at the same time causing one to come down "harder" when placing their foot on the dance floor. The thickness of the sole makes it hard to "feel" the floor, making it necessary to lift the foot higher to glide forward (or backward) when moving around the floor. But the real killer is that extra 1/4 inch of sole sticking out all around the shoe, like the bumpers and fenders on an old car. Not only are you more than likely to scuff your partner's shoe, in all likelihood you will also trip over your shoes, especially if any sort of "footwork" is required.

Now you can find very light, designed for dancing, wingtips if you look around-- I have an old pair of patent leather wingtips with thin soles that were made in Italy and are a dream for dancing. Compared to a pair of ghillie brogues they are about half the weight.

Jaguar used to advertise their cars as the perfect blending of "Grace and Pace". The same applies to formal shoes. They should be graceful, not chunky or clunky, and make it easy for the wearer to keep up the pace when dancing.

[CMcG]

This opinion has been expressed several times in this thread, or rather, that wingtips (?) aren't good for dancing...

Would you guys mind explaining why?

I think that opinion is predicated on the assumption that a black tie formal event would feature a smooth and elegant style of dancing. Given that this is the Traditional Highland Dress section of the forum, that is probably a fair evaluation of traditional, formal events...

[Bugbear]

Post deleted, off topic.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

That's a peculiar article...

They should bring back the knee breeches and silk stockings for formal attire, though.

What? "Bring Back?!!" Damn me for being a Foreign Johnnie! but they ain't gone outta fashion in the best circles. Not by a long shot. What do you suppose a feller wears to Court? Rough tweeds and plus-fours? Hardly the outfit when HMTQ (God bless and preserve Her) puts the Garter on yer leg. Sheesh! Out of fashion indeed.

Bearer! Burra peg, jaldi jaldi!

[macwilkin]

What? "Bring Back?!!" Damn me for being a Foreign Johnnie! but they ain't gone outta fashion in the best circles. Not by a long shot. What do you suppose a feller wears to Court? Rough tweeds and plus-fours? Hardly the outfit when HMTQ (God bless and preserve Her) puts the Garter on yer leg. Sheesh! Out of fashion indeed.

Bearer! Burra peg, jaldi jaldi!

Harumpf! The Raj has never been the same since they started bringing the Memsahibs over...

ith:

T.

[Bugbear]

Post deleted, off topic.

[wildrover]

I think that opinion is predicated on the assumption that a black tie formal event would feature a smooth and elegant style of dancing. Given that this is the Traditional Highland Dress section of the forum, that is probably a fair evaluation of traditional, formal events...

Only time smooth and elegant does not apply is a mosh pit.

Every style of dance, from house to ballroom to blues, favors a lightweight shoe with a spectrum of traction ranging from the minimal grip of a skate/bmx flat to a near-gripless leather sole on a powdered floor. All favor feel rather than padding, except the skate shoes around the sides and ankles. A thick sole is a detriment when standing, since it reduces tactile sensitivity, a wide sole is a problem like MoR stated, and a sole that is both is more likely to cause a sprained ankle if you tread on someone or bring a foot down on edge when you're being athletic, even if it's just a quick side freeze, or a pause to the floor in the middle of a swipe. They just don't work. Great for walking, not so great for dancing, and I'm not talking about just that "upper deck on the Titanic" snooty style of dancing. They completely suck for swing, and they're just too clunky for blues, tango, breaking, swing, and hip hop. They're also the antithesis of classic house. They're a shoe you really have to force across a dance floor, and it's all because of a big, thick sole that's more at home on a sidewalk or in a garage. Don't get me wrong, they'll have to pry my Docs out of my cold, dead hands, but they're not dancing shoes.

There is only one environment outside of a mosh pit where that style of shoe is at all acceptable, and I don't call that dancing. More like bobbing the head with a drink in hand...and while I'm not gonna say there's anything wrong with it, there is no dancing involved whatsoever. Most people just don't dance, first out of embarrassment and second from lack of training. Dancers are made, for sure. Feet not moving? Then you're not dancing. Even close blues needs small freedom of movement and the ability to rotate in place.

A good formal shoe is like a classic Jaguar XKE while a wingtip can best be compared to a Land Rover. Like the XKE the formal shoe should be light, and allow you to move with consummate ease through the crowded conditions of a dance floor without bumping into anyone.

The problem with most wingtips is a combination of the weight of the shoe, the thickness of the sole, and the extra width of the sole extending beyond the upper portion of the shoe itself. In short they are designed to be "Land Rover" tough.

The weight of the wingtip makes it more difficult to lift the foot, while at the same time causing one to come down "harder" when placing their foot on the dance floor. The thickness of the sole makes it hard to "feel" the floor, making it necessary to lift the foot higher to glide forward (or backward) when moving around the floor. But the real killer is that extra 1/4 inch of sole sticking out all around the shoe, like the bumpers and fenders on an old car. Not only are you more than likely to scuff your partner's shoe, in all likelihood you will also trip over your shoes, especially if any sort of "footwork" is required.

Now you can find very light, designed for dancing, wingtips if you look around-- I have an old pair of patent leather wingtips with thin soles that were made in Italy and are a dream for dancing. Compared to a pair of ghillie brogues they are about half the weight.

Jaguar used to advertise their cars as the perfect blending of "Grace and Pace". The same applies to formal shoes. They should be graceful, not chunky or clunky, and make it easy for the wearer to keep up the pace when dancing.

That makes perfect sense. The wingtips I've encountered in the past, made for dancing, did not exhibit any of the detrimental characteristics you've highlighted. I've only danced in my dress shoes a couple times (regretted it both times...epic blisters), and they are fairly narrow, with a sole not noticeably beyond the sides of the shoe, and they are very lightweight. I far prefer them to a lot of what I see offered these days, which is thick & clunky in comparison...looks like I'd trip over my own feet, if I weren't walking like one of those wind-up cymbal monkeys.

At any rate, now I know specifically what to look for in a dress shoe, and why.

[rtc872]

The style of shoe does have much to do with dancing but also fitting if with the overall look of the outfit. With back tie in the past the lighting would have been dimmer and a greater appreciation was for the play on textures. You suit a fine wool. The lapels covered in silk (be it grosgrain or plain). Silk stockings and a delicate shiny shoe. As you can see a brogue shoe amongst that doesn't follow the play of textures. It is too textured. The same as wearing brogues with baggy jeans look too delicate for the outfit. Everything has it's place.

Black tie is all about simplicity of textures.

[Lyle1]

When dancing is involved, thinner soles also allow you to "feel the floor" (to use a dancer's term), and smooth or, even better, suede soles are preferred because they allow the foot to glide or slide across the floor. Heavy shoes and shoes with rubber soles will stick to the floor, particularly when turning.