Best brogues for the best price?

[JerseyLawyer]

I think you might be misunderstanding? These are both "Piper's Brogues" as I said in my fist post, but they're made by different companies. They both have rubber soles with the metal cleat in them. If you click on the pictures (I made them link back to their respective websites), you'll see what I mean.

Well, that's what I get for looking at the pictures, rather than clicking on them. But the pair I have are the same brand as the first ones, and they're still going strong after a few parade seasons of wear, so I don't think you'd have a problem with those.

[Tobus]

The Doc Martens I have were made in England, maybe I got the last of the real ones Sorry Troxel if the was misleading but all my Doc Martens were made in England and I was unaware that they're made anywhere else...

Two weeks ago, I went to a factory outlet mall with my wife to shop for shoes and boots. Every single pair of Doc Martens I found was made in China.

[artificer]

Two weeks ago, I went to a factory outlet mall with my wife to shop for shoes and boots. Every single pair of Doc Martens I found was made in China.

Aye, ~8 years ago they moved much of their production off-shore. There are still several models made in the UK, but a significant premium is paid for this.

Those living in the UK may not be facing the same issues, all their product might be domestic. It would be interesting to hear from some shoe shoppers there.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'm not quite sure I understand the xenophobia (shopophobia?) that seems to attach to products traditionally made in the United Kingdom, but now made elsewhere... Chinese made Doc Martens, for example. I can understand it when the item thus (or should that be there) produced is shoddy, cheap, and nasty. But when quality remains unchanged (or superior as in the case of the Rolls-Royce motorcars built at the Rolls-Royce factory in Springfield, Massachusetts, in the 1920s) then I don't think it matters a whit as to where the goods are made.

That said, Doc Martens really aren't appropriate for wear with formal Highland attire.

[artificer]

I'm not quite sure I understand the xenophobia (shopophobia?) that seems to attach to products traditionally made in the United Kingdom... Chinese made Doc Martens, for example. I can understand it when the item thus (or should that be there) produced is shoddy, cheap, and nasty. But when quality remains unchanged (or superior as in the case of the Rolls-Royce motorcars built at the Rolls-Royce factory in Springfield, Massachusetts, in the 1920s) then I don't think it matters a whit as to where the goods are made.

That said, Doc Martens really aren't appropriate for wear with formal Highland attire.

I'm not saying that the Chinese made Docs are a bad thing, it was simply a statement of fact about when the production changed.

There were a few small material changes made that I wasn't happy about when production shifted off-shore, but they were minor. It certainly wasn't anything to stop me buying the brand.

Back on topic - I completely agree that Docs aren't appropriate for Highland, or ANY other formal attire.

[Tobus]

Likewise, I didn't comment on whether Chinese production of Doc Martens was good or bad... I was simply stating my observation.

Though since the subject has come up, I think there are two primary reasons people usually want to pay attention to the nation of origin. 1: quality, and 2: politics. Even if the former is not an issue, the latter may be. And that's enough said on the subject.

[Mike_Oettle]

While quality goods can be made in many countries, and there is a measure of logic in moving production offshore, there is a downside to this.
And it is not only the quality of the goods that is relevant.
In many cases, Third World countries produce goods that are immensely cheaper than those from Western nations because the workers are exploited and abused.
It is worth inquiring after the conditions under which such cheaper goods are produced, since purchasing these goods amounts to approval of inhumane working conditions.
When South Africa underwent its transformation from the apartheid regime, the new government was under immense pressure to join in the trend of globalisation. Protective import tariffs were abolished without regard to whether certain imports perhaps ought to be subjected to such tariffs because of unfair competition, dumping, or the use of slave labour.
The nett result has been the collapse of the South African textile industry and the flooding of the South African market with goods of questionable origin.
There is a racial aspect to this matter as well. Most of the textile factories employed Coloured and Indian workers, rather than black people.
Unemployment in these communities has soared as a result, but the government, dominated by black people, has treated them with disdain.
Regards,
Mike

[wildrover]

Mosying back toward the topic, I have a pair of the heavy sole, heel cleat piper's brogues...they're comfortable enough to tromp around all day long at a Games and I don't feel like my feet will fall off. The leather seems to be good quality, and they take a shine well.

It's worth re-hashing what at least one other person (MoR) said, that those big piper brogues aren't necessarily the best thing to be wearing at a formal indoor event...tho photographic evidence may show that particular style being worn, the heel cleat on the piper brogue is steady on ice...and hardwood, linoleum, veneer, and other soft surfaces.

The advice to buy a nice pair of dress shoes is spot on. Don't forget the socks...piper's brogues pair well visually with big cable-knit socks, and can work fine with less-embellished socks. Big cable-knit fatties, IMHO, do not look nearly as good with smooth formal shoes.

I also have a pair of Florsheim Imperials...comfortable, once they're broken in, but I wouldn't tromp around a Highland Games in them, either. The quality of the leather, and the shine I can get on them, may be similar to the piper's brogues I have...but there's no way the leather soles would hold up outdoors.

[CMcG]

I'll play devil's advocate here

While Docs aren't part of formal THCD, they could work well for less traditional formal wear, kilted or otherwise. Depending on one's social circle, an Airwair sole can be much better (and safer) for dancing then a daintier, leather sole.

Besides, Doc Marten's come in many varieties, beyond those favoured by your local punk:






And just for comparison, I believe the shoes purchased by the OP are these:

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I'll play devil's advocate here

While Docs aren't part of formal THCD, they could work well for less traditional formal wear, kilted or otherwise. Depending on one's social circle, an Airwair sole can be much better (and safer) for dancing then a daintier, leather sole.

Besides, Doc Marten's come in many varieties, beyond those favoured by your local punk:

Fortunately CMcG is now back on his medications...

These shoes may be fine for wandering around your local Scottish Games with a dazed, "I've been coshed on the noggin" look, or when pumping gas (petrol to us refined types) down at the local 7-11, but they are strictly OUTDOOR CASUAL shoes.

Here's why:

Take a look at the very thick commando soles (okay, if you are out with the lads and want to go commando, these are the shoes to wear). Aside from packing up with dog poo, rocks, mud, and even more canine crap to drag into the house, they are totally unsuited to dancing. (Unless of course your idea of dancing involves stomping to the beat of a tom-tom or the deafening blare of technocrap in mosh pit, in which case you can stop reading now.) Dancing is one of the hallmarks of a civilized gentleman, especially when kilted. On the dance floor these shoes would display all of the grace and elegance of a hippopotamus on a muddy river bank.

And why is that? Simple. The soles would stick, rather than glide, on the dance floor. Yes, dancing is all about "tripping the light fantastic", not stumbling about the dance floor like a drunken sailor mauling a taxi dancer. Ruth Ettings fans will know that I mean.

And besides, to quote O.J. Simpson-- "Those are ugly-*** shoes..."

Need one say more?