X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    11th March 06
    Location
    Near Birmingham U.K.
    Posts
    676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruanaidh View Post
    Prison for Prince Charles if knife in sock passes into England

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ch..._into_England/
    And the new Prime Minister is a Cameron! Honestly though, I think it depends on how the individual police officer interpretates it. I haven't had a problem - yet. As a precaution I have glued the blade into the sheath and if questioned I'll just say it's a dummy sgian dhu - "You try and unsheath it!"
    The Kilt is my delight !

  2. #2
    Join Date
    22nd January 10
    Location
    Southport UK
    Posts
    301
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a regular wearer of full Scottish attire in London, I asked the Police what the ruling was for wearing my sgian dubh. They said as long as I was in full National dress, that it was ok. I travel through some rather risky areas in north London and even though police have been scanning at tube stations through an arch, they have never asked me to go through, even though they have clearly seen me wearing my sgian dubh in my sock. However I do tend to wear a fake unless I am in full formal Argyll, Crail or Prince Charlie.
    Schiehallion kilted and true

  3. #3
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well done, Tom! Pernicious officials of that type deserve the public embarrassment they are so fond of handing out.
    Hear, hear!

    Sadly, though, in this day and age if a police officer sees that you are armed (even if it's a wee sgian dubh) and decides to confront you, he will likely already be expecting trouble. Any back-talk or response other than complete submission will result in a tasing, followed by an arrest on charges of "obstructing justice" or even "assault on an officer". It happens every day, at least here in the States.

    Leaving aside my personal opinion on such behavior by the police toward those they are supposed to "protect and serve", suffice it to say that one should think twice when confronted by an officer over a weapon, before deciding to attempt to publicly reprimand him.

  4. #4
    Foxgun Tom's Avatar
    Foxgun Tom is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
    Join Date
    3rd October 06
    Location
    Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland
    Posts
    147
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tobus say's "Leaving aside my personal opinion on such behavior by the police toward those they are supposed to "protect and serve", suffice it to say that one should think twice when confronted by an officer over a weapon, before deciding to attempt to publicly reprimand him."

    I appriciate your comments but here in the UK the police are here to serve first and foremost! They are paid servants of the public, and none of them are above the law or immune from being criticisedby denying my rights under current legislation here in the UK, police officers here can't do as they please and escape the consequence's of their actions, thank God! they can't taser you first here and then ask questions

    This officer had no right or cause under current UK legislation to confront me over my wearing traditional dress, sporran or or sgian dubh My rights as a citizen of the UK were being questioned by a public servant who's main duty is to enforce the law not make them up to suit his situation and here in the UK and Scotland the public and citizens have every right to reprimand an officer in public or private (were' still democratic countries) as far as I'm aware? This constable overstepped the mark by threatening to lay criminal charges against me, for legislation that does'nt exist or he interpretatated as wrong

    Overall cop's are well meaning individuals who deserve a lot of credit for doing a difficult, dangerous and sometimes thankless job, but any cop that abuse's his posistion through ignorance of the law and make's threats should'nt in my opinion be in the job?

    You also can't compare like for like ie: American law enforcement with British, we have different social issues, different arm's weapons legislation!

    Tom

    Ps: will post my written apology shortly as my office in the attic is being refurbished and files and paperwork are everywhere I've been unable to find anything at the moment!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    3rd July 09
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,389
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think both of the posted points of view about arguing with the police are correct in their own way. Often, when an officer challenges a citizen on an unimportant matter, it's to size up their reaction and is done because the person is suspected of committing or plotting some real crime. This is very commonly seen at border crossings, for instance. The other, and completely unacceptable, sort of scenario is seen when the officer is just throwning their weight around for some personal reason and that sort of thing should be challenged by a citizen- with judgement. And with a really bad officer it might be best to do it with the person's superiors, after the fact if necessary (unfortunately a lot of criminals and people with personality defects have figured this out also). In the scenario described in Foxgun's posts, it seems clear that the young j--k o-f was outraged for anti-hunt PC reasons which are all too well known in the UK.

    But ayuh, in all cases when arguing sgians with the police, it is well to remember the North American adage about not bringing a knife to a gun fight....
    Last edited by Lallans; 18th October 10 at 08:35 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,711
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Foxgun Tom, of course I agree with your comments. I only stated what I stated earlier as a reminder to some that the reactions can be completely different when a similar situation occurs in different places. In general, citizens should ALWAYS stand up for their rights. But those in authoritative positions don't always take kindly to being told they're wrong, and the evidence shows that one's attitude has a lot to do with how the message is received. In a perfect world, a citizen should be able to confront a police officer when he is in the right, and be able to get an apology. But that's a dangerous game, so I simply wanted to remind everyone that when you have a weapon on you and you are confronted by a police officer, be smart!

  7. #7
    Foxgun Tom's Avatar
    Foxgun Tom is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
    Join Date
    3rd October 06
    Location
    Paisley, Renfrewshire, Scotland
    Posts
    147
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tobus thanks for your response's I have to say I think I was the one being smart rather than a smart - ***. As you say the Sgian Dubh is indeed a weapon (knive) but it is construed here as something rather more, its percieved as a fundamental part of a Scot's national dress! rather than something to be used as offensive weapon its recognised as being more decorative than offensive! I know of no incident in recent history in the UK where anyone has been injured as the result some-one wearing Scotland's national dress or a Sgan Dubh as part of?

    All the officer in question had to do was contact the data-base at the PNCR (Police National Computer Records) as soon as I gave my personal details, Officers here can do that instantly!

    He would have been given information regarding my status confirming my age (53), address, the fact I have never been in trouble in my life eg: no criminal record! and that I've held a fire-arm cerificate for 35 years! You don't get issued with one of those if your an idiot?

    The event that I was attending and the situation I and the public were in no-one was in the slightest danger from anything? this cop just took a dislke to my national dress, my fox-mask sporran and my Sgian Dubh His manner and comments I found personally deeply offensive and very insulting and he was acting outwith his remit he then compounded the situation that I might be charged with criminal offence's that don't exist

    He did'nt misconstrue anything he was ignorant of the law and my rights, part of his duties are to respect and uphold them!

    That's why he was censured by his Duty Inspector and why I was given a personal written apology by his Chief Constable.

    This thread was started by a newspaper article that was also ignorant of current legislation in the UK and was out to sensationalise a non story that fuels peoples misconceptions

    All the best

    Tom

    Ps: If I was wearing jeans and a zipper jacket rather than my kilt, carrying a Sgian Dubh? and I did not have a valid reason for it being in my possesion?, and a valid reason would be! "that I had just purchased it and was taking it home and intended to wear it as part of my national dress

    If I did not have a valid reason? the cop would be in the right and I would truly deserve all I get, charged, monetary fine or even prison?

    Pps: I just looked at the link in your previous post with the greatest of respect that's from an American perspective, Here in Scotland if challenged by a police officer we don't have to make make any comments statements or reply to anything that may incriminate us! You must by law provide details of identity ie: name , address and birthdate! You can be held while those details are verified and obviously if your suspected of a crime

    The Scottish legal system is also different from the rest of the UK and there is a difference in some rules of evidence
    Last edited by Foxgun Tom; 18th October 10 at 11:48 AM.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Similar Threads

  1. The Mc"Clans" are In Danger
    By The Celtic Gypsy in forum Miscellaneous Forum
    Replies: 97
    Last Post: 14th February 10, 08:31 PM
  2. Danger mouse and the stolen bagpipes
    By Splash_4 in forum Miscellaneous Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 7th May 07, 05:21 PM
  3. We're going to England!!!
    By KiltedCodeWarrior in forum Miscellaneous Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 22nd September 06, 05:19 PM
  4. The danger of wearing trousers
    By MACKAY in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 9th February 06, 09:04 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0