Scotland's Shame

[madmacs]

Now I do have to say that this is what came to mind when i read the title...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...nt_of_Scotland

[Peter Crowe]

Now I do have to say that this is what came to mind when i read the title...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...nt_of_Scotland

The term 'Scotland's Shame' was first coined in a speech by the composer James MacMillan, and subsequently became the title of a book of a collection of essays he contributed to some years ago. He was initially stung into public comment when his daughter was called an anti-Irish Roman Catholic epithet because of her school blazer by a bigoted male youth.

The book was a collection of essays by various academics, and cultural figures in Scotland edited by the Scottish and Irish Historian, Professor T.M. Devine on the subject of specifically anti-Irish Roman Catholic prejudice in modern Scottish society.

My wife (then fiancee) and I attended the book's launch at the Borders book store that used to be in Glasgow's Buchanan Street (about 10 years ago). Each perspective was different, based on the different experiences and/or observations of each contributor.

[Sheep In Wolf's Clothing]

I think the police might be vigilant after what happened last year when the Celtic Manager was attacked on the pitch. He also received death threats as did several prominent Celtic supporters. Celtic has also just been reprimanded for fans chanting sectarian songs during games. So it seems to be a touchy subject still. Though I think the Police officer did over react a little.

I listened to a podcast not too long ago from the BBC about this topic, and frankly I still don't understand hating people you don't know based solely on their religion.

My best friend is a Roman Catholic and sadly a Rangers supporter.I'm an atheist and a Celtic supporter..we get along just fine..except on Old Firm match days, when there is some heavy trash talking,but never has our religious views(or lack there of) ever come into the conversation!
YNWA
Sara
P.S. Tunnocks needs to make their tea cakes gluten free!!

[cessna152towser]

Matt Newsome wrote:-

Have we really reached that point where displaying an image of the pope on a scarf is considered a danger for "potentially causing a riot?"

The Sun article is not very well written and could be construed as suggesting such but the way I read it was that it was the cop's over-reaction in confiscating the scarf which could have potentially caused a riot, not the displaying of the image of the Pope.

[AFS1970]

The Sun article is not very well written and could be construed as suggesting such but the way I read it was that it was the cop's over-reaction in confiscating the scarf which could have potentially caused a riot, not the displaying of the image of the Pope.

That was what I got out of the article also. So basically we have a potentially riotous response to an (overzealous) attempt to reduce rioting.

That's just sad. Have we really reached that point where displaying an image of the pope on a scarf is considered a danger for "potentially causing a riot?" Really?

Sadly we (I think on both sides of the pond) have become so PC that we start looking at things that may make someone feel uncomfortable as a high crime against society.

My best friend is a Roman Catholic and sadly a Rangers supporter.I'm an atheist and a Celtic supporter..we get along just fine..except on Old Firm match days, when there is some heavy trash talking,but never has our religious views(or lack there of) ever come into the conversation!

That's rather the point. In a Celtic v Rangers game there is absolute identity between religious affiliation and which team the fans root for. They are the same. Catholics are for Celtic and Protestants are for Rangers. If there had been a riot, untangling whether it was religious or team related would necessarily be entirely impossible.

Not knowing the whole situation I was going to ask about this, are certain teams supported more by members of certain denominations? I guess that is the case. So is this move an attempt to end sectarianism at sporting matches only or throughout society in general?

We had enough problems with how threads went even when tartan was involved during the Pope's visit.

Yes, but IMHO those threads were lead astray by folks who set out to do just that because of sectarianism, not despite it. I haven't seen such happen in four pages of posts in this thread yet.

[bdkilted]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

[AFS1970]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

Well said, I agree wholeheartedly.

[Peter Crowe]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

I don't know what sources you are getting your information from but as a native born and bred Scot and a person of faith, I can assure you there is no government policy (by either the UK or the devolved Scottish governments) to 'stamp out religion'. I suggest you check the following:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Ju...-violence/bill

[Jock Scot]

I was recently on another forum where they used argued against sectarianism in Scotland, but then went on to condemn all people of faith. It seems to me, in the articles I have read that the government is using the rare sectarian violence (usually associated with football games) as an excuse to stamp out religion in the UK. That is sad, as here in the states we have found that the more religious a person is, the less violent they tend to be, with one possible exception that will remain unsaid due to forum rules.

Just to put the record straight.

I am not a religious person, so I have no axe to grind, but I can assure you that the UK Government, or mainstream political party, is not trying to stamp out religion in the UK. Sectarianism most certainly they are, any sensible person would support that -------religion most certainly they are not, really they are not and any attempt for the Government to think of doing so, let alone try to do so, would be political suicide.

Good gracious what sort of country do you think the UK is? Perfect we are not, but I am appalled that any one should even think that a UK Government would be heading along those lines.

[cormacmacguardhe]

My grandmother was born in Renfrew in 1876, she lived in Belfast from age 10 to age 21. She made quite a big deal out of the fact that her grandparents were burned because they were Covenanters. She told of the difficulties encountered in Belfast due to being Protestant. She actively was almost what you would call rabid in her disdain for those of the Catholic faith. One would hope that as the world evolves these kind of sectarian hatreds would eventually die out.