Something new - an Islamic tartan

[Meggers]

It is, I will concede, stretching a point to regard military tartans as being Islamic. But tartans representing Islamic royal houses are as much Islamic as they are family symbols.
Regards,
Mike

Im annoyed that I am the only Muslim on these boards to clarify this and I'm not allowed to (as been reminded in my inbox many times). Especially since I dont agree with this.

Back to the tartan at hand, however, if it matched my wedding colors, I would try to incorporate it in my wedding but, alas, it does not.

[Mike_Oettle]

A point of clarification: at no stage did I suggest that any of the tartans I mentioned were representative of Islam as a whole.
Over and out.

[Meggers]

A point of clarification: at no stage did I suggest that any of the tartans I mentioned were representative of Islam as a whole.
Over and out.

Then you and I are on the same page. Political and monarch tartans are just that: political and monarch. They may stand for a certain group of Muslims, but they dont stand for Islam. Thats why I disagreed. I think it was a matter of me just not quite getting what you were saying. lol. Which can happen very easily with me and politics.

This tartan, I would say, is probably one one of the only ones that I have seen that represents an actual Muslim community on a religious level which is what makes it really special. It isnt tied to a military or a monarch, which would be nice for people who live in that community, but sucky for those of us who don't. Of course, the fact that this is Scottish Islamic means that it really only applies to Scots, but I think it can also reach out to the Scottish diaspora as well and can be worn with pride.

My favorite thing about this is now I have a tartan that my fiance and I can wear together that will represent us both instead of just me. He was always on board for getting a kilt (and even tried to wear one of mine which was beyond funny as I'm a size 0 and he's a man!) but they were always tartans that were representing my heritage. Now he can have one that he can wear and have claim to as well. He's not Scottish, but I am, so that would make him wearing Scottish Islamic appropriate as he's marrying into "the group" and even if he wanted to wear it without me around, he can wear it with pride now that it has a little piece of himself in it as well. Next step is to simply weave an Islamic tartan that all Muslims can wear regardless of where they live. That would be nice.

The bigger problem on my hands is that it's probably very expensive as it's probably not in high demand.

[McClef]

There is the problem that it would be difficult to get universal agreement within any one religion that any particular tartan is "the one" in terms of what it represents.

If one likes it and considers it to be reasonably representative then one can wear it on that basis, though as Meghan says, it could be more expensive in not in high demand.

The same problem applies for tartans that claim to have a Christian or Jewish or whatever basis.

When Matt Newsome designed the tartan for the Pope's visit to the UK a couple of years ago it was named after a Scottish Saint so other designations of it as the Papal tartan or Catholic tartan were incorrect although it was used in that event and therefore connects with people's remembrance of it.

If the Scots and Islamic elements of this tartan connect and have a meaning for you and you future husband Meghan, that's great.

[Mikilt]

There is the problem that it would be difficult to get universal agreement within any one religion that any particular tartan is "the one" in terms of what it represents.

If one likes it and considers it to be reasonably representative then one can wear it on that basis, though as Meghan says, it could be more expensive in not in high demand.

The same problem applies for tartans that claim to have a Christian or Jewish or whatever basis.

When Matt Newsome designed the tartan for the Pope's visit to the UK a couple of years ago it was named after a Scottish Saint so other designations of it as the Papal tartan or Catholic tartan were incorrect although it was used in that event and therefore connects with people's remembrance of it.

If the Scots and Islamic elements of this tartan connect and have a meaning for you and you future husband Meghan, that's great.

***
Well said.

[Meggers]

There is the problem that it would be difficult to get universal agreement within any one religion that any particular tartan is "the one" in terms of what it represents.

The same problem applies for tartans that claim to have a Christian or Jewish or whatever basis.

And that's exactly right. No one really has the right to create any one single design representing 1.5 billion people from all corners of the globe and from all backgrounds either. I would just order this one and wear this one with pride. However, I did see that the tartan has restrictions over who may or may not purchase it. I sent Azeem an email asking about it and explained that I am a Scottish-American Muslim and would like to own a skirt and a kilt in this tartan someday. We'll see what he says back.

[Deirachel]

Coming back after a brief break, and after consultation with our own Thistledown, there is a point still to be made.

The other tartans in question still have been referred to as "stand for a certain group of Muslims". Yet, they are not. They "stand for" specific individuals, families, and/or organizations. The tartan's are not representative of the faith of the members of the groups, just the groups themselves. The Royal Bahrain and Sultanate of Oman are perfect examples of this. They are symbols of the crown complete and separate from any religious roles these monarchs fulfill. Stating these tartans are representative of Islam (or even a certain group of Muslims) is the same as stating any of the tartans of the Crown of England and Scotland (Government, Balmoral, et. al.) are symbols of Christianity (or certain groups of Christians {e.g. Anglicans}) as Her Majesty Elizabeth II is the Sovereign of the Faith (head of the Church of England). Yet, the Balmoral is reserved to the Crown and those she gives permission to. Yet, if she gave permission to a family member, who happened to convert to another religion, it wouldn't show a connection of said person to Christianity, just a connection to the Monarch. Nor, as an Anglican herself (officially), does the tartan represent the Anglican Church for the Queen.

It is, of my opinion, a discourtesy to the original intent of the artist/designer of a tartan to add or take away meaning from a piece of art or symbol. Take the Red Stewart. Those of us here, know it's a symbol for the Stewart clan. Yet, the vast majority of Americans just think of it as "that red and yellow plaid". To me, this a sad thing.

TL;DR

The tartans representing a monarch are only symbols of the monarch, just as a royal standard, their crown, et al, NOT a symbol of their religious faith, even if they are ALSO the head of a religious faith in their role as monarch.

[Meggers]

and ***

but...

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...59#post1112459

(Mikes post and then mine)

[Deirachel]

My point, Meghan, is they don't represent Islam AT ALL. Not "some Muslims" as those posts state.

They represent the specific institutions only. From it's notes, the Scottish Islamic represents Islam and it's connections with Scots, but with emphasis on Scottish Muslims.

Al-Maktoum represents a specific pipe band. It has since been adopted by a SPECIFIC school/foundation. (This is like saying the Universty of Georgia tartan designed by our own Matt Newsome is representative of all college students and/or alumni.) Harazeen is a individual person's tartan, not even representing the UAE and Palestine; same for Al-Fadhli. Royal Army of Oman, Omani Regiment 2nd Pipe Sqn. (Mil.), and Sultan of Qaboo’s Air Force are for military units. The Royal Bahrain is the tartan of the crown; same with the Qaboos (ITI Number: 1806, which Mike previously referred to as the Sultanate of Oman). Both are individual person's tartans for all intents and purposes, just as the Balmoral is for Queen Elizabeth. None of these represent Islam, just those specific groups or individuals. Especially in the case of the tartans representing groups. For example, it is possible to be a member of one of these military units without being a Muslim as Article 17 of the White Book requires equal treatment of any religion for it's citizens. Any citizen can join the SAF under Article 37 of the same. Therefore, it is possible for a Christian, Jew, or Buddhist to be a member of the Omani Regiment 2nd Pipe Squadron.

It's the 'all poodles are dogs, thus all dogs are poodles" fallacy which I am taking issue with here.

[Walkman]

A very nice design. Looks like it's being put to good use as well.