XMTS Motto

[emolas]

I don't recall who said it but :

"Friends are the family we choose for ourselves."

Traditional clans were related families. You were born to the clan by blood and had no choice in the matter. As far as XMTS, you CAN'T be born into or have blood-ties so you have to CHOOSE to be a member. We are a "family" (and therefore clan) made up of people who choose to be in this family. That's how I read the motto and feel it is very fitting considereng how one becomes a member of this "clan".

[DTrain]

The "choice" here isn't the choice to wear a kilt. Its the choice to participate in this forum, which some have likened to a "virtual clan."

Everyone here is a member of XMarks, but we are in no way connected by blood relations. I vote for "By Choice, Not Blood" to show that this is a voluntary association rather than family ties.

[Ozman1944]

The 'Blood" things gets a bit over dramatic, don't you think?

How about; "Because we can!"

or "Because we want to"

But I'll go with the multitude; Kilts are cool

[Nick]

Some of the mottos of Scottish clans are a bit dramatic, so it fits.

[ChattanCat]

I, being scottish by heritage, feels like "not blood" doesn't fit us all.

[BEEDEE]

An on-line dictionary defines clan as:

clan (kln)
n.
1. A traditional social unit in the Scottish Highlands, consisting of a number of families claiming a common ancestor and following the same hereditary chieftain.
2. A division of a tribe tracing descent from a common ancestor.
3. A large group of relatives, friends, or associates.

We obviously fall under the third definition, so the motto is appropriate. Regardless of our blood relationship to a Scottish clan we are all members of XMTS by choice, so I don't see the motto as excluding those who have a blood claim to another clan.

Brian

[Luckey]

This isn't a clan, group, association, or whatever which has ANY blood ties whatsoever. I agree with DTrain, since we share no common blood, "By Choice, Not Blood" explains it perfectly...at least to my simple mind.

[MacWage]

On "Choice:"
The PHRASE WILL be: Per Electum . . .
(I look it ALSO through the idea of "by election . . ." which has a WHOLE different set of connotations, ESP. in religious circumstances.
The LATIN means BOTH. It means that we ELECT (Choose) to be here.


By "blood" refers to EACH OTHER (not really our connection to Scotland, which may or may not be by blood).

The Overall meaning is that we are a "clan" united by our DECISION to be here, not by our BLOODTIES to ONE ANOTHER. In other words, we are an ENTIRELY volunteer "clan."

So, the FULL LATIN slogan is fine.
The shortened version: "Per Electum" (By Choice) would ALSO work for me.

[sjrapid]

It has been suggested in another Thread that we should adopt a motto to represent this great place and all our members who have made it such.

The phrase: “By Choice, Not Blood” , which in Latin would be “Per electum, non consanguinitam" has seemed popular.

Should we adopt this as the Motto for X Marks the Scot.com ?

This works for me, but should ideally be in Latin (or gaelic, if someone can provide a rendering) rather than the vernacular. I for one enjoy the conversational openers I get from the fact that people don't always instantly recognise the tartan I'm wearing, or know the latin or gaelic of a clan motto.

I don't see how allegiance can enter into it, we are in X Marks my choice and there is no Chief to swear allegiance to...

As other Gunns on XMTS will be aware, it is possible for a clan to exist and be recognised without a proven hereditary chief to whom you have to swear fealty.

The camaraderie we have with each other in the site that has brought us together and formed friendships provides a form of personal allegiance which goes beyond any feeling of mere duty.

Well said, Sir!

It's good to see all the differing opinions coming out in this series of threads. We may or may not be a clan, but we are definitely a rabble!

All the best

[pwyll]

</lurk>
I'm diving into a kettle of fish--my first post on Xmarks is in a "political" discussion 8-o

I think, but am likely wrong, that some of the contention is based on an initial reaction to semantics. I know that many people reply to a post without reading follow up posts and that some of the argument *may* come from that practice. Here is why I believe that may be the case in some instances:

For my own part, my reaction to the initial post in which the English version of the motto was stated as "By Choice, Not by Blood" was negative. Semantically speaking, in English that does exclude blood-ties. While the argument is made that the motto is regarding membership in the forum rather than a statement on culture or heritage, the fact is that I joined the forum *because* it is for the education and support of a part of my cultural heritage. The fact that no one needs to claim a genealogical connection in order to participate in and/or celebrate that heritage is a plus. But the fact that Hamish is looked to so often for advice and opinion, and the fact that tanks are, in general, "the" kilt to aspire to, only reinforces the point that the culture and heritage *is* a part of this forum. I could not support the phrase "not by blood" as it does, semantically, exclude my genealogical ties to this heritage.

Panache's "clarification post," on the other hand, seems fine to me. "By Choice, not Blood" semantically only means that Blood is not an issue, and I can support that phrasing whole-heartedly. It does not exclude anyone, it only excludes an exclusionary tactic ;)

I realize that many people will point out that the Latin may be translated either way, but the two relevant (to me) points about that argument are:
1) wars have been fought over translations
2) the poll does not mention a Latin (or Gaelic) phrase, the poll is for the motto in English

And the poll specifically lists the phrase "By Choice, Not by Blood."

I understand that most people who support it won't see a difference between that and "By Choice, not Blood;" but I do. I understand that many people who oppose it won't see a difference, either; but I do. And I know that many people may see the poll as stated actually being for the phrase as "clarified" by Panache; but I have lived in this great land of ours, the US of A, for far too long not to realize that the letter of the law has more impact than the intent, and that what you *say* often has much more effect than what you mean.

I cannot, in good faith, vote 'yes' to "By Choice, Not by Blood" as the English phrasing quite clearly excludes genealogical ties, though I do recognize that not everyone will agree. I could enthusiastically endorse "By Choice, Not Blood," however, as it dispenses with the negative connotations, though evidently not everyone agrees.

But that's kind of the point. We are, after all, trying to make a choice ;)


Scott

<lurk>