Interesting email from an Irish fellow about Irish kilts.

[JRB]

Bravo arrScott. Very well said. Just because a person lives outside the country of their ancestors does not mean that their cultural identity should automatically be invalid. A cultural should always be evolving, otherwise it's dying.

[Mr. MacDougall]

Since there are 44 million of us here, and only 6 million people of Irish descent left in Ireland, who is to say which is the "real" Irish culture, if only one can be?

Something about this part of your statement makes me uncomfortable. Is culture a numbers game? Is it about geography? Is it about genetics?

I think part of my problem is that I, personally, am a mutt. My maternal grand-father came from Germany, so I'm a quarter German. My maternal grandmother was Scots / Cherokee / French / Dutch, so I've got splashes of all of those. My paternal grandmother came from Ireland, so I'm a quarter Irish. My paternal grandfather was Danish / English / Dutch / Greek. So what am I? My answer has always been "an American," but it seems like a lot of people don't want to accept that as an answer.

Most of us who are Americans, whose families have been here for more than a generation, can hardly point to one area of the world from which our ancestors came. Most of mine at least came from Europe; I have friends whose ancestors, while as varried as mine, came mostly from Asia, or Africa. What are they, if not American?

Of the 44 million Irish descendants you quoted, how many have more than a thread of Irish in their cultural heritage? I'm 1/4 Irish, which, as I understand it, means that I could apply for Irish citizenship currently. But I would never claim that I have a better understanding of what it means to be Irish than someone who actually lives in Ireland, even if I and my distant cousins here in America out-number the distant cousins who live in Ireland.

I think the best solution is to say, "this is an Irish-influenced part of an American sub-culture," and let it go at that.

[pdcorlis]

I think this guy has just about had his 15 minutes of fame...

[arrScott]

Something about this part of your statement makes me uncomfortable. Is culture a numbers game? Is it about geography? Is it about genetics?

My point was that it's not a numbers game, and it's not a geography game. The only "real" culture is what real people actually do. The "Irish" traditions of Irish-Americans are no more or less authentic than the "Irish" traditions of people who live in Ireland. Sure, there's a lot of counterfactual nostalgia in the Irish-American sense of Irish-ness, but there's also a lot of deliberate artificiality in the Irish sense of Irish-ness, too. I mean, the potato is a Peruvian crop brought to Ireland by Spanish sailors. So are all the potato dishes I was served in Ireland not really Irish? Does the shepherd's pie I saw on the menu make the pubs I visited in County Kerry really Peruvian pubs or Spanish pubs, not Irish establishments? Of course not. That's a silly way to think of culture, but it's what the original emailer would have us do.

I'm 1/4 Irish, which, as I understand it, means that I could apply for Irish citizenship currently.

Under Irish law, you need to have at least one grandparent who was born in Ireland or who was an Irish national to be eligible for citizenship. I'm about half Irish by ancestry -- my mom's side -- but since the last direct ancestors to come over did so in the 1870s, I won't be getting that EU passport.

It took me a few days to look it up, but the original email talking about plastic Paddies and whatnot reminded me of an old Hawaiian saying I came across once. When a Hawaiian was embarrassed by or ignorant of traditional Hawaiian culture, he was said to be "he Hawai'i 'uwala Kahiki." Or, in English, "An Irish-potato Hawaiian."

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind being an Irish-potato Hawaiian!

[MrAcheson]

My son(who will be here in Oct.) will basically be 1/3 Irish, 1/3 German, 1/3 Mexican.

Your son's genealogy breaks down in thirds? How the heck did you conceive him in the first place?

My dad's side of the family is mostly Scottish and German. My mom's is mostly English and Irish. I guess that makes me all American. But I still wear a kilt to the highland games and I'll probably buy a SWK Green Heavyweight for St. Paddy's despite what this guy says.

[davedove]

Well.
I'm from here, and I haven't been there...

but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[rickmac15]

I've been thinking since I read this post ,Idon't think Scottish nationals think the same way asthe Irish

[Ayin McFye]

I've read all 4 pages of this thread in detail. This topic has come up multiple times in the past. I used to get unnerved when someone questioned me about my heritage, but I had to stop getting all fired up, because if you're different than most people then you get questioned a lot. I am an American when it comes down to it. I was born here, plus this is the only country for which i am a legal citizen. I have family members from Scotland, Ireland, Cherokee and German. My Grandfather on one side was from Ireland and married a Cherokee woman. My Grandmother on the other side was from Scotland and married a German. I primarily embrace my celtic heritage but oh well.

One of my best friends moved here about 3 years ago from Japan. She is a citizen of the US. I treat her with the same respect that I treat every other US citizen. She doesn't run around bashing on Japanese-American's that are trying to embrace parts of her homeland. She doesn't work at a Japanese Resturant and then huff and puff at the people who come in and eat there and try to enjoy an authentic experience if they're not full blooded japanese.

I think that if someone chooses to embrace a culture they were not born into, then they are honoring that culture, and should be thanked for doing so.

Not everyone gets the details exactly right when they try to "fit in" to a culture or sub-culture, but who cares in my opinion. At least they cared enough to try.

[Archangel]

I remember reading an interesting story from a native American. He was in Germany and was invited to meet a group that was fascinated with his culture. They had set up a replica native community and welcomed him. Unfortunately, they put the wrong accent on something and ended up calling him something pornographic. He was offended and abruptly left.
Within about ten minutes, he reconsidered and went back. He told the people what had happened and that it took him that time to realize what they had done. He recognized that they had intended respect but caused offense.
He decided to stay and teach them.

There's always that option.

[Kid Cossack]

Something about this part of your statement makes me uncomfortable. Is culture a numbers game? Is it about geography? Is it about genetics?

Maybe culture is about how you feel?

I think part of my problem is that I, personally, am a mutt.

That's not a problem! That's a blessing. We mutts are blessed with hybrid vigor. Neat stuff!

My maternal grand-father came from Germany, so I'm a quarter German. My maternal grandmother was Scots / Cherokee / French / Dutch, so I've got splashes of all of those. My paternal grandmother came from Ireland, so I'm a quarter Irish. My paternal grandfather was Danish / English / Dutch / Greek. So what am I? My answer has always been "an American," but it seems like a lot of people don't want to accept that as an answer.

If they don't want to accept "I'm an American" (or "I'm a Canadian" or "An Aussie, mate, right down to the marrow") then that's THEIR problem.

Most of us who are Americans, whose families have been here for more than a generation, can hardly point to one area of the world from which our ancestors came. Most of mine at least came from Europe; I have friends whose ancestors, while as varried as mine, came mostly from Asia, or Africa. What are they, if not American?

Of the 44 million Irish descendants you quoted, how many have more than a thread of Irish in their cultural heritage? I'm 1/4 Irish, which, as I understand it, means that I could apply for Irish citizenship currently. But I would never claim that I have a better understanding of what it means to be Irish than someone who actually lives in Ireland, even if I and my distant cousins here in America out-number the distant cousins who live in Ireland.

I think the best solution is to say, "this is an Irish-influenced part of an American sub-culture," and let it go at that.