semi formal?

[davedove]

I would also recomend this website The Essential Black Tie Guide.

That's a great site. I think it lays out the different levels of dress quite nicely and does explain how they have changed.

While I can't say I agree with all the old "rules", I do think that society has become much more casual. For instance, I don't think it's necessary for men to wear a jacket and tie to the baseball game (like they used to do), but it's bad that many people seem to think that dressing up means to wear the t-shirt that doesn't have any holes.

A big part of it is a general lack of respect for others. Dressing appropriately isn't meant as a set of rules to stifle a person's freedom. It's meant as a way of showing respect to the host.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I agree with this statment... but even here on this board there is the same problem. As Chef says in his tag line ... I too tend to frequent this point of view. I would suggest that anyone wishing to wear Evening Dress, read "So You're Going To Wear The Kilt!" by the late J. Charles Thompson, F.S.T.S. I would also recomend this website The Essential Black Tie Guide. This site answers many of the questions on why proper formal attire is going the way of the dodo. But to sum up the answer it's laziness and lack of respect (read selfish) for other and their experience during an event. We see this in the form of these answers; "I don't have time", "I don't have the money", and my favourite "I like it like this". We were all taught that if we can't say anything nice, then we shouldn't say anything at all. But it seems to me that people use this as a blank cheque to do anything they want nowadays, as there are no repercussions. In the case of proper evening wear, it would be ridicule. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a mean spirited person, but I don't want lazily dressed people at events I choose to take part in because they like to look like an abomination. I have seen pictures in the "don't" thread being ridiculed by members, and have seen people post their own picks, which might look like they also belong in that thread getting praise and the usual "looking good". Are members being nice, or do they mean this? I would suggest that being kind, when one does not mean the words they use will only reinforce in a person that they are dressed well when they are not. Am I the only one who has noticed this?

Frank Logan

Frank--
I agree with all you've said-- I don't think you are in any way mean spirited in your observations, you are right on message. I believe a lot of the "looking good" comments are the result of people being afraid to offer constructive criticism where it is needed, lest they open themselves up for criticism or personal attacks. I think the real issue is that dressing well involves sacrifices, and most people in today's society are not prepared to deprive themselves of one pleasure so that they may enjoy another. They want it all, and they want it now. As you rightly put it, they are selfish.

[SFCRick]

I LOVE it that men stress over what to wear and give each other advice on what to wear!! You guys are GREAT!!

[Highland Logan]

I'm glad I'm in good company here..

Frank

[Jock Scot]

The general rule of thumb for theatre-going:
Opening night: black tie;
Evening performances: conservative suit and tie;
Matinee: casual, but jackt and tie preferred.

So, in answer to your question, I'd suggest you go with your day wear jacket, a white shirt, and a nice tie. That way you'll look fine, and your wife won't feel over dressed (or under dressed) compared to the other women present.

Very sound advice indeed.

[McClef]

I believe a lot of the "looking good" comments are the result of people being afraid to offer constructive criticism where it is needed, lest they open themselves up for criticism or personal attacks.

I would disagree and see the comments a genuine on the grounds that those who were genuinely afraid to make constructive criticism on those grounds would tend to say nothing at all.

There could of course be exceptions but on the whole I think that people who have something to say express it. I don' think that many take umbrage at criticism that is genuinely constructive and if they disagree they make equally robust responses. It's all done in good fellowship and without rancour in my experience.

[Hamish]

I would disagree and see the comments a genuine on the grounds that those who were genuinely afraid to make constructive criticism on those grounds would tend to say nothing at all.

There could of course be exceptions but on the whole I think that people who have something to say express it. I don' think that many take umbrage at criticism that is genuinely constructive and if they disagree they make equally robust responses. It's all done in good fellowship and without rancour in my experience.

I am with you here, Trefor, and I am one of those who will praise and compliment when I feel it is appropriate. Otherwise I generally remain silent. A few years ago, in X Marks' early days, I would make what I believed to be helpful comments and suggest improvements or alternatives, as I saw fit and based on my 50+ years of kilting experience.

More recently, I have mostly withheld such opinions, unless specifically requested, because I became aware of cultural, and other, differences between North America (where the vast majority of X Markers are domiciled) and the United Kingdom. We tend to dress up, or down, in different ways for similar events, and I found my own thoughts and suggestions were inappropriate for our American brothers. So, yes, now I remain silent on occasion.

Take care,
Ham.

[McClef]

As do I Hamish - yes we have to allow for transatlantic differences and interests about what goes with the kilt etc on each side of the "Pond."

Different climates and activities can have all have a bearing besides those of culture.

But one of the wonderful things is that the wealth of friendship and advice and knowledge is still there and last weekend at Ferintosh went to prove that what unites far overwhelms other considerations.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

One is either properly dressed, or one is not. Silence merely gives ascent to the validity of being poorly, sloppily, or badly dressed. The "rules" governing how to dress (kilted or not) are readily available for all to read, and abide by. That said, sometimes it is necessary to break the rule that says "a gentleman shouldn't have to tell a gentleman the things a gentleman ought to know" and speak out because, frankly, not everyone is a gentleman or knows all the rules.

If one has long years of experience wearing the kilt then speaking out can only enhance and improve the experiece of kilt wearing for others. So gentlemen, don't be bashfull-- if you see something that looks bad, or isn't socially appropriate, speak up. Don't be afraid to tell someone, "Hey laddie, it's time to pull up your socks and play by the rules of being well dressed".

It is better to try to warn someone off, then to remain silent and expose them to public ridicule.

[Highland Logan]

Being from Canada, and more specifically Nova Scotia, where a long Gaelic culture still survives, and having spent 13 years in the Canadian Forces, where I have had interaction with many from Highland regiments, I can say that the sensibilities in regard to appropriate dress while wearing a kilt, both dressed up, or in a more causal setting would show little difference with those with whom the dress originated. In the CF, we always went by the idea of "never pass a fault", as this would only reinforce or encourage the inappropriate action to continue, and constructive criticism, was just that constructive. It was never meant to be personal, but to help and guide the individual.

Frank