With time more diverse kilt wearing

[Erisianmonkey]

Your right, it is not. A kilt is however recognised as a form of national dress. Because of that, you should recognise it represents more to some people than a way to thumb their nose at the establishment or to let their privates hang free. I'm not a kilt snob because I think everyone should dress more formally, I'm a kilt snob because the kilt means something to me. It represents my history, my heritage and my family.

The kilt represents my heritage as well. That does not mean that I think that "traditional" is the only way to wear a kilt. I have no objection to people dressing in the Victorian getup that you have repeatedly in this thread stated is the only proper way to wear a kilt. I deeply resent the implication that was made before (and made explicit with this paragraph) that those who don't wear their kilt in the way you dictate are disrespecting its "Scottishness." Or that those who don't wear a kilt in the way that you dictate are less of Scots descent than you. I'll grant you I have more Irish blood than Scots, but that does not lessen my respect for my Scots heritage.

The kilt is unique in that it is probably the only single garment in the world that would gather people of so many different viewpoints together in one place to discuss it. There are many people of Scots descent who are afraid of claiming this piece of their heritage because dressing in a prescribed fashion goes against their principles. Folks like myself help to show them that a kilt is not a costume that must be worn only with this accessory or that or you are not recognizing that the kilt "means something" if you don't wear it in the "proper" (i.e., PC, or the like) way.

At that, I'm sure that my highland ancestors are spinning in their graves at the thought that people are claiming that "Highland Dress" is only proper if done in the method decided on mostly by the Gentry in the 19th century.

[Highland Logan]

And therein lies a distinction that I think should be made. I have several Utilikilts which I wear in lieu of shorts when it is warm. While UKs are based on "proper modern Scottish attire," they are actually an American garment.

They are very American... and based on a pair of cargo shorts, not a kilt. And when it comes to protocol and dress etiquette when wearing the kilt these don't count, because they are not kilts. If you wear a Utilikilt and don't wear a sporran, or no flashes... not to worry, the kilt snobs, kilt police, ect. well not hound you, and don't care... "It's not a kilt".

The kilt is unique in that it is probably the only single garment in the world that would gather people of so many different viewpoints together in one place to discuss it. There are many people of Scots descent who are afraid of claiming this piece of their heritage because dressing in a prescribed fashion goes against their principles. Folks like myself help to show them that a kilt is not a costume that must be worn only with this accessory or that or you are not recognizing that the kilt "means something" if you don't wear it in the "proper" (i.e., PC, or the like) way.

I had no idea that the kilt was the only garment in the world to grab so much attention. I guess all of the fashion shows I see on TV are just hype, and there really is no concern about any garment other than the kilt. And I was also unaware that anyone with a Scottish last name and not wearing the kilt were somehow afraid of their heritage. And which principles were those that kilt wearing is in conflict with? And why do people in this thread seem to be stuck on the Victorian Era, and Prince Charlie coate, and converting others to kilt wearing? Jamie has posted some fine pictures of him dressed well in the kilt, including in a t-shirt, did a PC get airbrushed in after I had seen the pic?

[TechBear]

They are very American... and based on a pair of cargo shorts, not a kilt. And when it comes to protocol and dress etiquette when wearing the kilt these don't count, because they are not kilts. If you wear a Utilikilt and don't wear a sporran, or no flashes... not to worry, the kilt snobs, kilt police, ect. well not hound you, and don't care... "It's not a kilt".

Alright, then. I see that there is no point or purpose to me being here if my UKs are not actually kilts. At least you were polite about telling me to shut up and go away.

[Chef]

They are very American... and based on a pair of cargo shorts, not a kilt. And when it comes to protocol and dress etiquette when wearing the kilt these don't count, because they are not kilts. If you wear a Utilikilt and don't wear a sporran, or no flashes... not to worry, the kilt snobs, kilt police, ect. well not hound you, and don't care... "It's not a kilt".

Alright, then. I see that there is no point or purpose to me being here if my UKs are not actually kilts. At least you were polite about telling me to shut up and go away.

I don't think that is what he meant. I think what he meant is that a UK doesn't represent anything Scottish and so those who are traditionalists don't care how it is worn.

The UK, as mentioned, is not a real kilt. I know this always offends some people whenever it's mentioned but it shouldn't.

From the UK website:

A NOTE ABOUT “REAL KILTS”:

It is often suggested that Utilikilts* brand utility kilts are not “real kilts.” This is 100% TRUE!

“Real Kilts” are defined as: “A knee-length skirt with deep pleats, usually of a tartan wool, worn as part of the dress for men in the Scottish Highlands.”

Utilikilts* brand utility kilts, on the other hand, are manskirts (as are Scottish traditional kilts, and, for that matter, any M.U.G (Men’s Unbifurcated Garment).

These are Utilikilts words not mine and that is why I have no problem how anyone chooses to wear a UK (within what are considered the confines of decency anyway).

[Chef]

The kilt represents my heritage as well. That does not mean that I think that "traditional" is the only way to wear a kilt. I have no objection to people dressing in the Victorian getup that you have repeatedly in this thread stated is the only proper way to wear a kilt.

Folks like myself help to show them that a kilt is not a costume that must be worn only with this accessory or that or you are not recognizing that the kilt "means something" if you don't wear it in the "proper" (i.e., PC, or the like) way.

At that, I'm sure that my highland ancestors are spinning in their graves at the thought that people are claiming that "Highland Dress" is only proper if done in the method decided on mostly by the Gentry in the 19th century.

Are you actually reading the same thread? Where did I state that I think a kilt is only correct if worn with a PC, or in a Victorian/19th century way? I didn't. I said nothing even close to that. I actually referenced a picture of Jamie in a t-shirt as a wonderful example of wearing a kilt casually. If you look on another thread I remarked that walking boots, scrunched hose and an Arran sweater were a fine looking outfit. It's something even I have done and I think it looks quite good.

Obviously where we disagree is on out definition of casual. I think casual is fine, I think grundge/slovenly is not. I don't know where you stand on that since you made up where my stance is.

I deeply resent the implication that was made before (and made explicit with this paragraph) that those who don't wear their kilt in the way you dictate are disrespecting its "Scottishness." Or that those who don't wear a kilt in the way that you dictate are less of Scots descent than you.

Again, I think you need to read more carefully. I did not say that someone who wears a kilt in a way I "dictate" are disrespecting its Scottishness. What I said was:

I only have a problem when they thumb their noses at those for whom the kilt has more meaning.

I was speaking specifically to those who wear a kilt for reasons other than their heritage and my point was that while they have the "right" to do what they want they should respect the fact that the garment means something to others and they may have differing opinions. If as you say you wear the kilt because of your heritage then you should understand that, no matter how you think the kilt should be worn.

Or that those who don't wear a kilt in the way that you dictate are less of Scots descent than you.

Again I never said that and it just doesn't make sense.

There are many people of Scots descent who are afraid of claiming this piece of their heritage because dressing in a prescribed fashion goes against their principles.

Again referencing the series of pictures Jamie posted, what fashion principles are these supposed people against? With the possible exception of pushing his hose down with a pair of boots (and I'll borrow one from Hamish for that)

what fashion principles are missed in that series of pictures? Unless they are against shoes or bathing I don't get it?

Folks like myself help to show them that a kilt is not a costume that must be worn only with this accessory or that or you are not recognizing that the kilt "means something" if you don't wear it in the "proper" (i.e., PC, or the like) way.

So the referenced pictures are all costumes? I certainly don't believe you feel that way. The only "accessory" I even mentioned in this thread was a sporran so again I think you are reading into my posts what you want to.

Yes, I have an opinion on how I think a kilt should be worn. It means a great deal to me. I don't presume to "dictate" to anyone how they should dress, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. While I may not like it I respect their "right" to do it. No one has to agree with my opinion but they should understand and respect where that opinion comes from.

[Erisianmonkey]

I had no idea that the kilt was the only garment in the world to grab so much attention. I guess all of the fashion shows I see on TV are just hype, and there really is no concern about any garment other than the kilt. And I was also unaware that anyone with a Scottish last name and not wearing the kilt were somehow afraid of their heritage. And which principles were those that kilt wearing is in conflict with? And why do people in this thread seem to be stuck on the Victorian Era, and Prince Charlie coate, and converting others to kilt wearing? Jamie has posted some fine pictures of him dressed well in the kilt, including in a t-shirt, did a PC get airbrushed in after I had seen the pic?

I said single garment. And what I said is that there are a lot of people who don't have a personal style that leans towards dressy or formal did not know that a kilt can be worn casually, or even ultra-casual, as I do.

Are you actually reading the same thread? Where did I state that I think a kilt is only correct if worn with a PC, or in a Victorian/19th century way? I didn't. I said nothing even close to that. I actually referenced a picture of Jamie in a t-shirt as a wonderful example of wearing a kilt casually. If you look on another thread I remarked that walking boots, scrunched hose and an Arran sweater were a fine looking outfit. It's something even I have done and I think it looks quite good.

Obviously where we disagree is on out definition of casual. I think casual is fine, I think grundge/slovenly is not. I don't know where you stand on that since you made up where my stance is.

I was speaking specifically to those who wear a kilt for reasons other than their heritage and my point was that while they have the "right" to do what they want they should respect the fact that the garment means something to others and they may have differing opinions. If as you say you wear the kilt because of your heritage then you should understand that, no matter how you think the kilt should be worn.

Yes, I have an opinion on how I think a kilt should be worn. It means a great deal to me. I don't presume to "dictate" to anyone how they should dress, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. While I may not like it I respect their "right" to do it. No one has to agree with my opinion but they should understand and respect where that opinion comes from.

What you have said is that "a proper kilt is not that casual a garment." You have said that people with "slovenly" or "grundge" styles shouldn't wear a kilt. You have stated that people who don't wear the kilt in the manner that you do are not respectful of the kilt's origins. You have intimated that only those who wear a kilt in the manner you do respect Scots heritage. I reject that and since you are claiming that I have twisted your words while twisting mine I think that we can agree to disagree right here and respect that each of us wears a kilt in our own way for our own reasons. The one thing I will ask of you is to recognize that even though I wear my kilt with a muscle shirt, ranger vest, and sandals I respect my Scots heritage and I am damned proud of it. I'm a slob, I'll admit it, but that does not mean I don't respect my ancestors.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm getting out of this thread before my anger turns into animosity. My final shot here is to say that anyone who says I don't respect my heritage can kiss my pleats.

[Makeitstop]

I always wear the kilt correctly; wrapped around the waist, pleats in back, apron in front, dangly parts out of sight, and absolutely not upside down or inside out.

There is really only one rule governing how we are to dress; when in public, keep your naughty bits covered. Sometimes we can add "no shirt, no shoes, no service" but that is in no way universal.


I wear my kilts with t-shirts and sandals. No sporran. No hose. I sometimes wear athletic shoes or work boots, as the situation may require, and with those, plain white socks (only because hygiene requires it) scrunched up at the ankle. And sunglasses, always sunglasses.

Why do I dress this way? Because it's comfortable and I like it. If I were to dress the way others seem to suggest I must, I would not only have to spend considerable amounts of money on new clothes, but I would also be far less comfortable, and as a result, far less agreeable. A happy slob is definitely better than a pissed off snob.

Honestly, why should I wear clothing that I find uncomfortable and generally unappealing? To satisfy the demands of total strangers? Sorry, but I don't live for the approval of others. You don't have to like it. Hell, you can call it the single greatest abomination in the history of the world. I don't care. Why should I be any more concerned about your opinion than you are about mine?

Anyone who throws a fit about how I dress clearly has too much time on their hands. Really, what does it matter? My clothing is my own business. If it offends you, I suggest looking away, and possibly therapy, as that just isn't healthy.

The only way anyone will ever get a say in how I dress is if they are paying and/or dating me. For anyone else, if they want me to lose the casual attire, they'll have to take it. And if they manage to do so, they'll suddenly find that they are in possession of stolen property, and facing a large, angry, naked man. Believe me, you'd be better off just accepting the t-shirt and sandals.

If anyone prefers to dress formally, semi-formally, casually, or like a total slob, that is their own concern. Let everyone decide for themselves how they prefer to dress, and don't be bothered if someone makes a choice that you wouldn't have made. There are so many other things for us to all worry about. This is right below "dandruff in polar bears" and just above "the problematic temporal mechanics of the back to the future movies" on the big list of things we should worry about.



So, to answer the original question, no, I don't find that I have gotten more casual, as I have nowhere to go but up. If anything, I have gotten slightly less casual. With the kilt, I keep my shirt tucked in.

[DireStraitsFan]

I always wear the kilt correctly; wrapped around the waist, pleats in back, apron in front, dangly parts out of sight, and absolutely not upside down or inside out.

There is really only one rule governing how we are to dress; when in public, keep your naughty bits covered. Sometimes we can add "no shirt, no shoes, no service" but that is in no way universal.


I wear my kilts with t-shirts and sandals. No sporran. No hose. I sometimes wear athletic shoes or work boots, as the situation may require, and with those, plain white socks (only because hygiene requires it) scrunched up at the ankle. And sunglasses, always sunglasses.

Why do I dress this way? Because it's comfortable and I like it. If I were to dress the way others seem to suggest I must, I would not only have to spend considerable amounts of money on new clothes, but I would also be far less comfortable, and as a result, far less agreeable. A happy slob is definitely better than a pissed off snob.

Honestly, why should I wear clothing that I find uncomfortable and generally unappealing? To satisfy the demands of total strangers? Sorry, but I don't live for the approval of others. You don't have to like it. Hell, you can call it the single greatest abomination in the history of the world. I don't care. Why should I be any more concerned about your opinion than you are about mine?

Anyone who throws a fit about how I dress clearly has too much time on their hands. Really, what does it matter? My clothing is my own business. If it offends you, I suggest looking away, and possibly therapy, as that just isn't healthy.

The only way anyone will ever get a say in how I dress is if they are paying and/or dating me. For anyone else, if they want me to lose the casual attire, they'll have to take it. And if they manage to do so, they'll suddenly find that they are in possession of stolen property, and facing a large, angry, naked man. Believe me, you'd be better off just accepting the t-shirt and sandals.

If anyone prefers to dress formally, semi-formally, casually, or like a total slob, that is their own concern. Let everyone decide for themselves how they prefer to dress, and don't be bothered if someone makes a choice that you wouldn't have made. There are so many other things for us to all worry about. This is right below "dandruff in polar bears" and just above "the problematic temporal mechanics of the back to the future movies" on the big list of things we should worry about.



So, to answer the original question, no, I don't find that I have gotten more casual, as I have nowhere to go but up. If anything, I have gotten slightly less casual. With the kilt, I keep my shirt tucked in.

Well said. Very well said.

I prefer to be "neat" when dressed in a kilt in public. I have no reason why. It's not because I feel I have to consider someone else's ridiculous notions of how I should dress, I just like to be neat in my kilt. But what I consider to be "neat" may not cut it for someone else.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that post. Thank you for saving me a rant.

[Jock Scot]

Well, whether we come from the more "traditional "casual end of the kilt world or the more "modern" end of the casual kilt world is a matter of choice and that is as it should be.It seems the one thing that, perhaps, we all agree on is as Erisianmonkey succinctly phrases it: "THE KILT IS NOT A F******* COSTUME!!!"The kilt is Scottish attire,and maybe some people forget that,so please humour this Scotsman when he takes more than a passing interest on kilt matters.I hope that does not qualify me as a "kilt snob"?

[McClef]

And especially not a costume for Gilbert and Sullivan Major Generals!