New? kilt seller on eBay: AllScottish.CA

[The Wizard of BC]

Please notice that this seller has not been active on X Marks since early in march.

I did a little research and the Tartans he offers are the same ones produced by our friends in Sailkot Pakistan. The give-away is the "Freedom Tartan" They used to sell this as "The Freedom Kilt".

It seems a branch of the Gold Bros. has imported a few sewers from Pakistan and set up a Kilt making shop in the Suburbs of Glasgow.

So, yes, the Kilts could be made in Scotland.

But all the other cautions we have posted here about Pakistani P/V that is really Acrylic, Heavy Weight Wool Kilts that sell for less than the fabric costs, and all the rest apply here.

For a good idea of what his Kilts will be like please note that his "Irish underwear" cost almost as much as one of his Kilts.

caveat emptor

[Dan R Porter]

Irish underwear? I take offense to those items.

[RockyR]

I also noticed that the 8 yard wool kilt he has pictured is the Jones of Wales tartan, woven ONLY by the Welsh Tartan Centre. The price he is listing for that kilt ($155.99) is LESS than the cost of the material to make the kilt form the Welsh Tartan Centre. I would venture to guess that the kilt pictured could NOT be purchased for the price shown.

Please note there is nothing wrong with items made in Pakistan or China, if the buyer KNOWS that they are buying items from those countries. What IS at issue is when a company makes a claim about the origin of an item that is false. I have read through the different 'text' pages of this gentleman's site (see the 'about us' page under the 'legal and other stuff' link) and it is clear that he wants the buyer to believe that all his items are MADE IN Scotland.

[xena]

The real stuff isn't illegal, per say.

Well, it may be legal in the States, but I know it's not legal in Canada.

The stuff being sold to civilians as genuine CADPAT is in fact genuine.

Rarely.

The reason some of it is allowed to be sold to the civilian market is because of slight "imperfections" in the bolt. The imperfection simply means that the color is not up to military spec.

There are more kinds of imperfections than colour issues.

There are no imperfections that I can see in my bdu's. This is how it was explained to me by the dealer I bought mine from.

Ahh, you're getting your info from someone interested in making a sale.

You can easily tell if the cadpat you're looking at is fake or not, assuming you've held the real stuff. The real deal is more breathable than any other tactical clothing I've worn, and the camo itself almost seems to be able to "chameleon" its base color to whatever natural color surrounds it. Awesome stuff.

Yup, the colour blending capability it has at a distance is startling. Marpat has roughly the same capability. But it's an IR factor that is the issue with the genuine Cadpat material. And that's why the Canadian Military Police investigate every bit of "Cadpat" that pops up on Ebay.

And, sorry for the pedantry, but Canadian's don't wear BDU's - and never have. Also, the last time Canadian soldiers wore anything called "fatigues" was in the 1800's, and they were worn whilst working in the horse stables.

We wear Combat Clothing, sometimes shortened to just "Combats". I know it's silly, but I offer these tidbits of info in good will, and not as a put-down. Now you'll be able to talk about your Canadian "Combats"!

But, different groups of people have different names for all sorts of things: hose/socks, trousers/trews, watchcap/toque, hoodie/bunnyhug, vest/waistcoat, etc. Learning about other folks terminology is all good.

[The Wizard of BC]

I'm not sure how this thread got onto the subject of CADPAT but as the maker of what I believe to be the only CADPAT Kilts ever made I think I should wade in on this.

First...Buying CADPAT fabric is not Illegal. But Canada does hold the Patent and Copyright on the design and licenses who can purchase the fabric. If you have a contract to manufacture items for the Canadian Forces and wish to use CADPAT fabric you can apply for the license.

I do know that there are real CADPAT items and some fabric that shows up on EBay on occasion. I know that there is also a mill in Tawain that is printing a knockoff that is very close.

The imperfections in CADPAT fabric have been a problem since the beginning. The fabric I used for Kilts was from the first batch. It was printed in Canada and the dyes ran. The pixels were not clear and sharp. I bought the fabric off ebay
The contract to print the fabric was then let to an American branch of the Company in Texas. The fabric would be woven in Quebec, shipped to the US for printing and then back to Canada to be made up.
Then the weaving firm changed. The company now producing CADPAT is Consoltex. http://www.consoltex.com/pages/History.aspx?lang=EN-CA They have a weaving and printing operation in Quebec but I don't believe that is where CADPAT is made.

The current issue of CADPAT no longer has the IR fibers in it. It was found that the fabric gave the same IR signature with or without the diffusing fibers and they were discontinued.

The current clothing in CADPAT is so prone to fading that I have seen uniforms here in Victoria that are almost white. The soldiers I know don't like it at all except when overseas because the weave is so light that you can see through it. Good in hot climates but not so good in a Canadian winter.
There is a fabric that is currently being used by the Canadian Reserves and Cadets. This fabric is actually the MarPat pattern without the EGA imprinted on it. The fabric was woven and printed in Tawain and sold to Canada by an American jobber.

This loose weave of the CADPAT uniform fabric is the reason I will not make any more Kilts from CADPAT. It is a terrible fabric for a Kilt. I use Milspec MarPat.

If anyone would like side-by-side scans of the different CADPATs or of a CADPAT vs MarPat comparison I have them.

[NancyMan]

Its been, um, some time since I promised a review of the All Scottish kilt I won on eBay. So what I now report is somewhat beyond a first impression. Its a nice darn kilt. Out of the box it seemed very like a Stillwater heavyweight in many ways. Both are constructed of good quality wool of equal weight, have decent construction, nearly the same number of pleats (Alscot 24, STW 22), identical buckles (though the leather of the STW belts has a better finish), and ironically they both suffered from apron and reverse pleat curl until I applied the steam iron cure. Both have a double fringe, kilt selvedge and a 7 inch inner lining. The Alscot pleats are 2 1/4 inches deep, the STW 3 1/4 inches. To me, both the Alscot and the STW are good generic "traditional" kilts priced at a point nearly anyone can afford. The one anomaly with the Alscot was that it was labelled 32 to 34 inch waist. Being rather elfin of body, I figured I'd need to move the inner strap and left buckles an inch or so to make it fit. Imagine my surprise when I could only cinch it to the middle hole of the straps. The kilt waist actually measures 29 to 31 inches. A perfect fit for me- but only by accident. I let the vendor know that he had a great product but needed to get his sizing issues sorted out or risk a lot of dissatisfied customers. Keep in mind that I may have gotten a sample kilt and not one of the regular run that are sold on the All Scottish website- http://www.allscottish.ca/index.php Sizing aside, I give the kilt an enthusiastic thumbs up.

These are the only pics I have:

[Snowbear]

I also noticed that the 8 yard wool kilt he has pictured is the Jones of Wales tartan, woven ONLY by the Welsh Tartan Centre. The price he is listing for that kilt ($155.99) is LESS than the cost of the material to make the kilt form the Welsh Tartan Centre. I would venture to guess that the kilt pictured could NOT be purchased for the price shown.

Please note there is nothing wrong with items made in Pakistan or China, if the buyer KNOWS that they are buying items from those countries. What IS at issue is when a company makes a claim about the origin of an item that is false. I have read through the different 'text' pages of this gentleman's site (see the 'about us' page under the 'legal and other stuff' link) and it is clear that he wants the buyer to believe that all his items are MADE IN Scotland.

What I have seen a lot of times on various items, is a marketing trick. The material comes from Pakistan (or equal), but they stitch it together in Scotland. That way they can say it is made in Scotland. I don't accuse this guy from doing this, but that's the only way I can explain the statement Rocky gives.

[Dan R Porter]

It also says his kilts are shipped from scotland to your door.

[CDNSushi]

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute here (since the owner seems to be MIA to speak for his site/product) his website does say: "heavy weight 16oz 100% worsted wool." That, and he says his products come from Scotland. If this is the case, what does it matter if the wool came from Scottish sheep or Pakistani sheep? (I'm not being sarcastic -- I'd honestly like to know)...

Plus, he seems to have at least one satisfied customer, judging by Nancyman's review...

What say you to that, gentlemen?

[wvpiper]

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute here (since the owner seems to be MIA to speak for his site/product) his website does say: "heavy weight 16oz 100% worsted wool." That, and he says his products come from Scotland. If this is the case, what does it matter if the wool came from Scottish sheep or Pakistani sheep?

I think the question should be "what's the difference between wool woven in Pakistan and wool woven in Scotland"? Wool, in and of itself is a commodity.
How it is woven, and ultimately put together into a garment, is what will make the difference, IMO.