traditional vs. classic

[creagdhubh]

That would be Lord Semple, and if I remember correctly. It is not a '70s "leisure jacket", but more akin to a sack suit of the mid 19th century. There are a number of photos of the Balmoral Ghillies in the mid 19th century wearing something similiar. I can't find a copy at the moment, but the picture I am thinking of is featured on the back cover of Bob Martin's All About Your Kilt.

It's certainly not from the 1970s though.

T.

Lord Semphill, yes. Quite a smart outfit...as well as HRH Prince Charles, and the Duke of Argyll. I always admire the funky colored hose! I agree with you about the shooting aspect!

[davidlpope]

Of the three photos, I expect the middle one shows what most would consider Traditional and/ or Classic, with the exception of the white hose. Granted, it is slightly boring, but (IMHO) is traditional and classic. Coming from a tradition of the navy blazer being slightly more acceptable than the tweed jacket, I would call it typical and supremely appropriate, though some might argue tweed would be more so for highland wear.

I think you'll find that this particular look (white shirt, solid tie, black Argyll with chrome buttons, white hose) can only be dated back to when pipe bands started wearing this style and, accordingly, cheap foreign imports started flooding the market. A good natured challenge: who can produce a photo showing the earliest that this style was worn as day wear in Scotland? My bet is it's a competing piper in the late 80's, early 90's...IMHO definitely not classic, but de facto modern traditional day wear, because of its prevalence.

And then there is the gent in the white PC. I think it is kind of nice- and I am grateful he didn't go for contrast by wearing a black shirt with it, in the Traditional Classic Gangster style, but I spy a too-long kilt, a ruche tie, a daywear waistcoat and a summer tropical jacket. Even by adding "modern" you can't quite stretch this to traditional, can you really?

I'm certainly not advocating for this gentleman's "style" of dress either. Without sounding too rude, I can say that I find it very (personally) unappealing. I do contend that this particular outfit (with the exception of the white PC) is, in actual practice, what modern traditional dress looks like- a collection of the many ubiquitous accessories that flood the market.

I believe the other man is the Chief of Clan McPherson. Do you notice he is not wearing a vest at all? He seems to be wearing a formal (in the American sense) shirt, but he is not wearing studs, as would be traditional...

Yes, this is Cluny MacPherson. He is not wearing a vest with his regulation doublet, opting instead for a kilt belt. I've noticed a lack of studs with most Scottish evening wear. Not sure about that...

Cordially,

David

[Tobus]

And then there is the gent in the white PC. I think it is kind of nice- and I am grateful he didn't go for contrast by wearing a black shirt with it, in the Traditional Classic Gangster style, but I spy a too-long kilt, a ruche tie, a daywear waistcoat and a summer tropical jacket.

What makes it a daywear waistcoat? Is it just the color, or something else?

[davidlpope]

What makes it a daywear waistcoat? Is it just the color, or something else?

I think the poster was referring to the fact that it is a "5-button" waistcoat, which comes up higher on the chest. Usually Prince Charlie Coatees and Regulation Doublets are worn with a lower, 3-button waistcoat. The distinction isn't really formal/daywear, though, since Sheriffmuir Doublets (formal) are worn with the higher style. The question is really whether it is typical to wear a high waistcoat with a Prince Charlie.

Cordially,

David

[Tobus]

I think the poster was referring to the fact that it is a "5-button" waistcoat, which comes up higher on the chest. Usually Prince Charlie Coatees and Regulation Doublets are worn with a lower, 3-button waistcoat. The distinction isn't really formal/daywear, though, since Sheriffmuir Doublets (formal) are worn with the higher style. The question is really whether it is typical to wear a high waistcoat with a Prince Charlie.

Cordially,

David

Excellent explanation! I learn something every day on this board.

[MacLowlife]

The champagne bucket toss

The Highland Reel

Roll and biscuit throwing ( accuracy and distance)

Tonsil Hockey

Guest picking up, aka Picking Up Strangers

(and, at the very end, sometimes... Distance Hurling)

ooops, and, usually in an abbreviated form of either black or white tie,
The Walk of Shame

[Panache]

Oh the fun of having a white tie highland athletic competition!


Just imagine the pep talk Coach Panache would give!


"Gentlemen, remember to be extremely careful and not soil your white gloves on the Braemar stone. It is most helpful to have a small brush concealed about your person and remove any dirt or mud that the stone acquires with a few brisk strokes before taking hold of it.

Also I want to see each and everyone of you properly address the caber before starting your lift. A simple "How do you do" should be sufficient.

As usual there will be no perspiring allowed on the field. Should one find one's face with a slight glow, please be discreet in removing it with your pocket squares.

And please refrain from any sort of undignified noises when exerting yourselves on the field. Should you absolutely feel the need to make some sort of an exclamation on your release let's keep it to a reasonably volumed "Tally ho!"

Right then! Off you go and may the best competitor proved themselves worthy!"

[creagdhubh]

Below is a photo of my wife and I at a local favorite Scottish pub called, 'The Scottish Arms,' here in St. Louis. It is owned and operated by an Aberdeen Scot, Alastair Nisbet. Excellent traditional Scottish food and a single malt collection that rivals all the distilleries in bonnie green Alba! I wear one Golden Eagle feather in my bonnet, because I am a Scottish Armiger, which means I have matriculated arms of an ancestor from the Lord Lyon King of Arms in Edinburgh. I petitioned my grant for arms about a year and a half ago and was granted the arms of an ancestor in the direct male line of my father's lineage-as it is not recognized on the female line (i.e-you cannot be granted arms if your ancestor is apart of your mother's side of the family).

[Tobus]

I have a question for the experts out there. I am fascinated by this picture (as with most of the portraits from that collection):




My interest here is on the fellow at the right side of the picture. He's wearing the Colquhoun tartan, which is why he caught my eye. I notice that he's got a basket hilt sword and what looks to be a targe on his left arm. The rest of his wardrobe seems to be military style stuff as well. Aside from the weapons, would this have been limited to men in military service, or was it common to see men dressed like this in civilian life?

But the real question I have is what kind of hat is he wearing? It's not a Balmoral, Glengarry, Tam O'Shanter, or anything else I'm familiar with. Is it strictly a military piece of headgear, or would this have been commonly seen as well?

[Jock Scot]

I have a question for the experts out there. I am fascinated by this picture (as with most of the portraits from that collection):




My interest here is on the fellow at the right side of the picture. He's wearing the Colquhoun tartan, which is why he caught my eye. I notice that he's got a basket hilt sword and what looks to be a targe on his left arm. The rest of his wardrobe seems to be military style stuff as well. Aside from the weapons, would this have been limited to men in military service, or was it common to see men dressed like this in civilian life?

But the real question I have is what kind of hat is he wearing? It's not a Balmoral, Glengarry, Tam O'Shanter, or anything else I'm familiar with. Is it strictly a military piece of headgear, or would this have been commonly seen as well?

I think we are in danger for falling into the trap that the artist may have intended. I do not believe for one second that the attire worn by the gentlemen in this and other like pictures was normal daywear for Scots, even well to do ones. These pictures should be regarded as nothing else than trying to "sell" the romance of Scotland. We can all dig out our Sunday best,or a Dress uniform and pose for a picture, but we all know that is not and never will be, normal wear.

I think the hat in question is known as a "hummel".