The Crow nation

[Nick the DSM]

Were they Highlanders, or Ulster-Scots? The Overmountain Men were mostly Ulster-Scots, and Sevier was a Huegenot. There were Ulster-Scots who were descendants of Highlanders like the Gallowglas, but more recent immigrants from the Highlands did not usually support the Patriots.

Don't blame me; blame scholars such as Calloway, Duane Meyer, etc. There are always exceptions, but Meyer's research on the Highlander communities of NC pretty much confirm that they tended to support the Crown over their rebel neighbors.

T.

Didn't most of the Highlanders have some sort of "agreement" or "contract" with the loyalists just to live over in the colonies?, sorta like indentured servants but not... I forget where I read, it might of been a book I real long ago.

[macwilkin]

Didn't most of the Highlanders have some sort of "agreement" or "contract" with the loyalists just to live over in the colonies?, sorta like indentured servants but not... I forget where I read, it might of been a book I real long ago.

Some were tenants, especially in the Hudson & Mohawk River Valleys. But Meyer contends that many were Loyalists because of their experiences with the '45 -- one failed rebellion swore them off ones in the future -- as well as religious & political differences with their Ulster-Scots neighbors.

T.

[BoldHighlander]

Were they Highlanders, or Ulster-Scots? The Overmountain Men were mostly Ulster-Scots, and Sevier was a Huegenot. There were Ulster-Scots who were descendants of Highlanders like the Gallowglas, but more recent immigrants from the Highlands did not usually support the Patriots.

I had a 6th great-grandfather (Teter Nave, Watauga Settlement, TN) who was in Shelby's command at King's Mountain. He was son the son of Swiss immigrants.

[BoldHighlander]

Some were tenants, especially in the Hudson & Mohawk River Valleys. But Meyer contends that many were Loyalists because of their experiences with the '45 -- one failed rebellion swore them off ones in the future -- as well as religious & political differences with their Ulster-Scots neighbors,

The Johnson's (Sir William & son, Sir John) had Scots Highland retainers at Johnson Hall. They were quite loyal & left with Sir John for Fort Niagara when the neighborhood got a wee bit "hot". They formed the nucleus of the Royal Yorkers (I've read that a few also joined Butler's Corps of Rangers). A lot of these Highlanders were F&I War veterans, having served in the 42nd, 77th, & 78th regt's.

The Scots Highlanders of the Cape Fear settlements were loyal not just because of their experiences in the '45 (a lot of these were former Jacobites), but they were also offered land if they remained loyal to the Crown. Great inducements indeed (land & a discharge was also an inducement for settlement after the F&I War).

After the defeat at Moore's Creek Bridge, a lot of these Highlanders went north, and along with those from NY formed the 84th RoF Royal Highland Emigrants, as far I know the only Highland Regiment formed in the American colonies -- unless you count the Loyalist militia the North Carolina Highlanders & Mackay's Coy (Highlanders) Queen's Rangers (they were the Headquarters Guard /Simcoe's bodyguard).

[macwilkin]

Thanks, Terry, for posting those examples of Highlanders in the Revolutionary period. Folks sometimes forget that Scotland was not a unified nation during the 18th century, and that Lowlanders and Ulster-Scots tended to view Highlanders in the same way they viewed the First Nations on the American frontier -- as "redshanked savages". Religious & political differences also caused a gap between Highlander and Lowlander, and this is also cited by Meyer as a reason why so many Highland immigrants may have sided with the crown -- as Roman Catholics and Episcopalians (The Kirk was only beginning to make inroads into the Highlands), they had little in common with their Presbyterian and dissenter neighbours.

Also something to consider: some supporters of the Stuart cause would have found very little attraction to the Patriot side and its anti-monarchial tendencies. George III may have been a Hanoverian, but at least he was a king.

The historian Fernec Szasz documents several examples of Patriot hostility towards Highlanders during the Revolution; In 1782, the Georgia legislature passed a resolution which declared the "people of Scotland" hostile to the Civil Liberties of America, and threatened to throw Scots in goal. Thomas Jefferson originally condemned "Scotch & other foreign mercenaries" in a first draft of the Declaration -- thankfully The Rev. John Witherspoon, himself a Scot, convinced TJ to remove that line. Another ancedote is told by a Highland officer who was physically and verbally abused by Scots-Irish patriots in the backcountry after being captured by rebels during the Southern campaign.

To bring this back to the First Nations, Pontiac's Rebellion in 1763 was a bit of a wake-up call for the British. The nations obviously preferred the French, but constantly played Europeans off of each other in the "middle ground". After Pontiac, the British started to mimic the French in terms of their relations with the Indians of the Old Northwest, and as a result, the majority did side with the Crown in the Revolution -- the Crown was a much better alternative to the swarm of American settlers and their sometimes violent acts (Think of the Paxton Boys or the Gnadhutten Massacre) against Indians in their way. As a result, Indian leaders from Tecumseh to Black Hawk and even Sitting Bull saw the British in Canada as a viable aternative to the bluecoat long knives -- Both Sitting Bull and Chief Joseph, for example, tried to flee across the border -- Sitting Bull was successful, and made "friends" with NWMP Commissioner James Macleod, who was a Scot. Joseph's attempts to reach Canada were not so successful.

T.

[Lallans]

The Johnson's (Sir William & son, Sir John) had Scots Highland retainers at Johnson Hall. They were quite loyal & left with Sir John for Fort Niagara when the neighborhood got a wee bit "hot". They formed the nucleus of the Royal Yorkers (I've read that a few also joined Butler's Corps of Rangers). A lot of these Highlanders were F&I War veterans, having served in the 42nd, 77th, & 78th regt's.

The Scots Highlanders of the Cape Fear settlements were loyal not just because of their experiences in the '45 (a lot of these were former Jacobites), but they were also offered land if they remained loyal to the Crown. Great inducements indeed (land & a discharge was also an inducement for settlement after the F&I War).

After the defeat at Moore's Creek Bridge, a lot of these Highlanders went north, and along with those from NY formed the 84th RoF Royal Highland Emigrants, as far I know the only Highland Regiment formed in the American colonies -- unless you count the Loyalist militia the North Carolina Highlanders & Mackay's Coy (Highlanders) Queen's Rangers (they were the Headquarters Guard /Simcoe's bodyguard).

I'm glad someone brought in William and John Johnson, father and son. They were a couple of remarkable Scots Irish men who lived sort of baronial Northern Irish style lives right in amongst the Iroquois and forged a major alliance between them the Crown before the Revolution- and were probably the deciding factor in why those Iroquois fought on the side of the British. The Johnsons would probably be as famous today as Boone and Crockett are if they hadn't fought on the losing side. John in particular was quite a vindictive fighter on the British side, according to what I've been told; even Canadian Loyalist descendants tend not to like him very much.

[macwilkin]

I'm glad someone brought in William and John Johnson, father and son. They were a couple of remarkable Scots Irish men who lived sort of baronial Northern Irish style lives right in amongst the Iroquois and forged a major alliance between them the Crown before the Revolution- and were probably the deciding factor in why those Iroquois fought on the side of the British. The Johnsons would probably be as famous today as Boone and Crockett are if they hadn't fought on the losing side. John in particular was quite a vindictive fighter on the British side, according to what I've been told; even Canadian Loyalist descendants tend not to like him very much.

The Johnsons were Irish, not Scottish (Sir William was born in Co. Meath) but they certainly had ties to a number of Highlanders that lived on their estate. You are quite right; they certainly do not get the recognition they deserve, or their protege, Joseph Brant.

We have a recent biography of Sir William, White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of America by Fintan O'Toole, in our library; I need to read it sometime.

I seem to remember a made-for-tv movie about Joseph Brant that had Pierce Brosnan playing Sir William.

T.

[dfmacliam]

And my grandmother was a Brant, on my fathers side, which is where my Mohawk blood comes from.

[Lallans]

The Johnsons were Irish, not Scottish (Sir William was born in Co. Meath) but they certainly had ties to a number of Highlanders that lived on their estate. You are quite right; they certainly do not get the recognition they deserve, or their protege, Joseph Brant.

We have a recent biography of Sir William, White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of America by Fintan O'Toole, in our library; I need to read it sometime.

I seem to remember a made-for-tv movie about Joseph Brant that had Pierce Brosnan playing Sir William.

T.

They were local boys (to me) and according to that traditon they were Scots Irish. They were certainly Irish Protestants so we're going to claim them anyway, both based on their fighting natures and also according the admittedly shakey notion that the native Irish of the period never were Protestants.

[macwilkin]

They were local boys (to me) and according to that traditon they were Scots Irish. They were certainly Irish Protestants so we're going to claim them anyway, both based on their fighting natures and also according the admittedly shakey notion that the native Irish of the period never were Protestants.

The family was of the Irish Catholic gentry and Jacobites, but Sir William, being the politically pragmatic fellow he was, converted to Anglicanism and abandoned most of his family's pro-Stuart leanings.

T.