Women in Kilts?

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 29th January 07, 04:13 PM

I think an important part of this whole discussion is what defines a kilt? I think everyone is in agreement that a kilt is a man's garment. But I think what really makes it a man's garment is that it is made for a man. Likewise, what makes a kilted skirt a skirt, as opposed to a kilt, is that it is made for a woman. As kilts are typically made to measure for the individual wearer, then this is not a problem (some of the less-expensive off the rack kilts being an exception).

A few comments:
Clovis, the styles of kilt you describe are completely outside the realm of "traditional Scottish kilt" and so a whole different sort of rules and conventions apply. Not that there is anything wrong with you wearing them, it's just that when people discuss women wearing "a man's kilt" they usually have in mind a traditional man's Scottish kilt.

Someone (I can't find who now) mentioned that his grandmother always spoke of wearing her "kilt." In my experience, I talk to a lot of older women who speak of wearing "kilts" either in their youth or currently. Inevitably what they describe is what we'd call a kilt-skirt or kilted skirt.

Which brings up a point -- what is the essential difference between a man's kilt and a lady's kilted skirt?

TYPICALLY (and I emphasize that word), a lady's kilted skirt is made from about 4 yards of light weight wool, machine stitched, and knife pleated to no particular pattern. It fastens on the left.

TYPICALLY, a man's kilt is made from heavier wool, 8 yards, hand stitched, and knife pleated to either sett or stripe. It fastens on the right.

But none of these rules are hard and fast. As Nanook mentioned, some lady's skirts are made to fasten on the right. This doesn't make them any less a lady's skirt.

What about fabric weight. Well, some men's kilts are made from light kilting weight. And who is to say a lady's skirt cannot be made from medium, or even heavy weight. I've made lady's skirts from 10, 11, 13, and 16 oz cloth.

And when I make them, I hand stitch them, just like I do a man's kilt. Who is to say a lady cannot have hand-stitched quality in her garment? And I always give the lady the option of knife or box pleating. And if she wants it pleated to the stripe, she can have it that way. Why not?

And what about yardage? Though a typical man's kilt today has 8 yards, it was not always so. 200 years ago a typical man's kilt only had 4 yards, and this is how I make my box pleated kilts today.

So if yardage, fabric weight, pleating style, and the rest don't really matter in the distinction between a man's kilt and a lady's tartan skirt, then what does?

Some suggest length. Certainly men have a much more narrow range of what is considered appropriate. A man's kilt is usually worn anywhere from mid-knee to an inch above the top of the kneecap. A lady's skirt, however, can run the gambit from full-length hostess skirt to an ultra short mini-kilt. But, it can also be knee length, just like a man's kilt.

So, what is the real difference, then? Let's say Joe calls me up and orders a four yard box pleated kilt in the MacDonald tartan, 13 oz weight, pleated to stripe. And then Jane calls up and wants me to make a knee length skirt for her, MacDonald tartan, 13 oz, with box pleats, to the stripe. Oh, and please make it close on the right.

What is the difference between these two garments? One thing and one thing only. Joe's will be made to his measurements, to fit his *male* body, and Jane's will be made to her measurements, to fit her *female* body. Joe's kilt won't be any less a kilt and Jane's skirt won't be any less a skirt.

Joe will probably wear his with a heavy leather belt, sporran, kilt hose, and boots. Jane might wear hers with a nice blouse, pantyhose, and pumps. And they will both probably look stunning!

Aye,
Matt

**pdcorlis** · 29th January 07, 04:15 PM

Great thread and a wonderful learning experience for me! I really appreciate the women of XMarks adding their perspective to the discussion.

**Dreadbelly** · 29th January 07, 04:15 PM

I am of mixed feelings on this issue. I can see both sides of the coin.

I'm gonna have to say, the only thing I will allow my self to be concerned about if my wife wanted to wear a kilt is how it would look rumpled up at the foot of the bed or flung over something.

I can't stop women from wearing them, and really, I can't be bothered to expend what energy I have getting mad about it. So, see the good in it. Women in kilts are like presents wrapped in tartan wrapping paper. Sometimes they even have bows or lacy trim.

**GatorUK** · 29th January 07, 04:17 PM

The only question I have is: why? And don't think the question is invalid because I get it almost everytime I wear a kilt. I've given all kinds of answers from the truth to the off the wall. So, I don't want to hear it's none of my business. None of the fine ladies on the forum that currently wear kilts need to answer. But, since the question was asked by the starter of the thread, I put the question only to his friend. "Why do you want to wear a man's kilt?"

**SnakeEyes** · 29th January 07, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dreadbelly

Women in kilts are like presents wrapped in tartan wrapping paper. Sometimes they even have bows or lacy trim.

Haha, that bordered on 'racey' I think, DreadBelly.

**SnakeEyes** · 29th January 07, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by GatorUK

The only question I have is: why? And don't think the question is invalid because I get it almost everytime I wear a kilt. I've given all kinds of answers from the truth to the off the wall. So, I don't want to hear it's none of my business. None of the fine ladies on the forum that currently wear kilts need to answer. But, since the question was asked by the starter of the thread, I put the question only to his friend. "Why do you want to wear a man's kilt?"

Good question. I'll be sure to ask her.

**Monkey@Arms** · 29th January 07, 04:49 PM

Frankly, most people would probably just view a kilted woman as wearing a skirt, and not give it another thought. I can understand the whole "Hey, women have enough clothing choices, can't they leave us the only traditional male non-pants options left" point of view, but really its not for me to say what they should wear (anymore than it is for others to tell us what, or what not, to wear).

As to why a woman might want to wear one, I know some women who were at shopping at the UK booth at the highland games liked the sturdy construction and pockets. I know others who aren't into feminine clothing but like the comfort, or wanted a more masculine look, and some who looked just fine in a kilt from this guy's point of view.

Vivre et vivre - Live and let live (and welcome Moosedog.)

Best regards,

Jake

**Sorcha Griannon** · 29th January 07, 06:33 PM

Actually, it is perfectly possible to make a very well-fitting trad kilt that is shaped for a woman's hips (see first image below). In fact, you use the same method to shape a kilt skirt as to shape a traditional kilt, so that's not a valid argument for a woman to wear a kilt skirt instead of a kilt. I've made traditional kilts for female pipers and dancers where the waist/hip differential has been as much as 16" (26" waist, 42" hips). An athletic man (with a flat tummy and nicely-developed bun muscles) typically has a waist-hip differential of 8-9" (see for example, the second photo below). So, in fact, even men can't be fit by a cylindrical kilt, and the pleats have to taper from hips to waist. The waist/hip differential drops to zero when guys have a "bit of a corporation".

Barb T

You are talking about a kilt tailored for a woman, but I am talking about one fitted for a man. If it's tailored for her, of course it will fit her right. But, it's just my opinion, and you have yours and all is well.
I actually agree with Matt above most of all.
Sorcha

**Kilted Stuart** · 29th January 07, 07:06 PM

You do see a lot more women in kilts, they are more apt to be in a mens trad. than a ladies kilt skirt these days. I think it's fine in pipe bands but like the more shapely fit of a kilt skirt. There are a few kilt makers (Canadian Casual Kilts makes both in all tartans and solids-including denim) that will make a kilt for women whether it is a trad. style or a more women friendly hip hugger style.
More women find the fit of the hipster more appealing because it sits more on the hips where jeans sit where most men like the kilt to sit a little higher or even higher on a full trad.

You can get them whether the men here like it or not. It is first and foremost a mans garment but my wife looks very good in her hip hugger mini. I'm not going to tell her not to wear it!!.

Kilted Stuart

**katmills2005** · 29th January 07, 07:34 PM

There was a time when pants were strickly for men. Now its more common to see a woman wearing them than a woman in a skirt.

I have also been to enough highland games that have women's competition to know that the female athletes wear kilts.

If my daughter asked to honor her father's heritage by wearing a kilt, I would not say no. Also, I have not found a kilted skirt made for a woman with my proportions and think that a pleated kilt style garment would be better suited than the straight cut skirts or extremly short mini skirts i've seen so far.