New? kilt seller on eBay: AllScottish.CA

[Canuck]

Just to play devil's advocate for a minute here (since the owner seems to be MIA to speak for his site/product) his website does say: "heavy weight 16oz 100% worsted wool." That, and he says his products come from Scotland. If this is the case, what does it matter if the wool came from Scottish sheep or Pakistani sheep? (I'm not being sarcastic -- I'd honestly like to know)...

Plus, he seems to have at least one satisfied customer, judging by Nancyman's review...

What say you to that, gentlemen?

Forum members as a consumer's seek advice on products, and are looking for best value for their dollar. Ultimately the consumer will decide where and when they will, and to whom they spend their money.
Forum members who are producers offer advise based on their knowledge.
This is a market economy...you get what you pay for. As a producer I have an advantage to compare the various range of products, their quality vs. price. So when a member seeks advice we can put out some facts which can aid that member in making a good consumer choice.

[The Wizard of BC]

What Robert and I are trying to do is give our fellow X Marks members the advice based on our experience. We both buy fabrics from most of the Kilt Wool weavers. You name a weaver, Batley, Strathmore,D.C. Dalglish, Lochcarron, Marton Mills, we have purchased fabric from them. We know exactly what the wholesale cost of those fabrics are.

We have also held those fabrics. We've made them up into Kilts. All sorts of Kilts. We know what it takes to make a Kilt.

I usually keep sample Kilts in my shop from Jerry, Frugal Corner, The Gold Bros. along with the other end of the spectrum like Barb Tewksbury and the Nicklesby's. These samples are to let customers hold, and compare side by side, the differences and characteristics of each one.

We go to gatherings of our fellow X Marks members like Kilt Nights to see other Kilts, and to see our products after sometimes years of use. For example in Palm Springs this last month I got to see five of my product for the first time since they left my shop. I got to see how they actually fit the customer, how they hung and swished, and how, in a few cases, they are not fairing too well due to something I did wrong.

We then come back here and pass on to you, our fellow members, that which we have learned.

When we see a Kilt that is being sold for about the same price as a pair of cotton underwear, and read the claims of the seller, our experience says "something is strange here". Perhaps it's a typo. Maybe there is something new out there that will revolutionize Kiltmaking for the better. And perhaps it is another case of someone who just resells something and are repeating what they have been told by who they bought it from and don't know any difference. There are a lot of reasons.

But how often have we seen the exact same wording on Kilt re-seller's sites lately? How often have we seen the exact same photos used to promote product from what is reputed to be a different company.

All we are saying is "If you wish to re-sell product, then be honest and open about what you are selling".

What we are saying is "If you wish to buy a product, then be informed about what you are buying".

What we are saying is "If you are happy, and you made an informed decision that your hard earned money is going to exactly the product you want, and that fits your needs, then we have done our job".

When a seller like Jerry at Stillwater is upfront about his product, when he treats his customers openly and fairly, when he delivers exactly what he advertises we applaud him, we support him and we send customers to him that we know would be happier with his product than with our own.

X Marks is a graduate course in Kilts. Our members are better informed, better representitive, of the full spectrum of Kilts than any other single source in the world. We sometimes forget this. We forget that once we were all as new to this as each newby we welcome to our ranks.

When I started, words like Steeking and phrases like Pleating to the Sett didn't drip off my tongue. I learned. Just like each of you.

Don't you wish you had the level of knowledge that you have now when you went to buy your first Kilt? How often do we hear from a new guy something like "Oh I have a Kilt. It was custom made for me in Scotland. But I don't wear it much. I'm here looking for something I can wear and not worry about spilling a beer on it."?
How often do we hear the opposite story?

If it seems like Robert and I are acting like the bad guys here then I'm sorry. We are upholding our responsibility to our fellow members and passing on our knowledge and experience.

In the end it is an informed Kilt buyer that will be a happy Kilt wearer.

[CDNSushi]

If it seems like Robert and I are acting like the bad guys here then I'm sorry. We are upholding our responsibility to our fellow members and passing on our knowledge and experience.

In the end it is an informed Kilt buyer that will be a happy Kilt wearer.

Not at all, Steve. Neither apologies nor apologetics required here. But the next time I find myself in Vancouver, I'd love to come by and see all your comparison kilts side by side. Maybe I'd really learn something!

[Colonel MacNeal]

Its been, um, some time since I promised a review of the All Scottish kilt I won on eBay. So what I now report is somewhat beyond a first impression. Its a nice darn kilt. Out of the box it seemed very like a Stillwater heavyweight in many ways. Both are constructed of good quality wool of equal weight, have decent construction, nearly the same number of pleats (Alscot 24, STW 22), identical buckles (though the leather of the STW belts has a better finish), and ironically they both suffered from apron and reverse pleat curl until I applied the steam iron cure. Both have a double fringe, kilt selvedge and a 7 inch inner lining. The Alscot pleats are 2 1/4 inches deep, the STW 3 1/4 inches. To me, both the Alscot and the STW are good generic "traditional" kilts priced at a point nearly anyone can afford. The one anomaly with the Alscot was that it was labelled 32 to 34 inch waist. Being rather elfin of body, I figured I'd need to move the inner strap and left buckles an inch or so to make it fit. Imagine my surprise when I could only cinch it to the middle hole of the straps. The kilt waist actually measures 29 to 31 inches. A perfect fit for me- but only by accident. I let the vendor know that he had a great product but needed to get his sizing issues sorted out or risk a lot of dissatisfied customers. Keep in mind that I may have gotten a sample kilt and not one of the regular run that are sold on the All Scottish website- http://www.allscottish.ca/index.php Sizing aside, I give the kilt an enthusiastic thumbs up.

These are the only pics I have:

So it was real wool and heavyweight?

[Dan R Porter]

I just placed an order for their Sgian Dubh #3

It cost me $49 USD. SO that would make the shipping around 15-20 bones. I will post the quality for the price review when I recieve it.

[RockyR]

Count me as '+ 1' to everything Steve says...

It's VERY difficult for Steve and Robert and myself (and other kiltmakers up here) to be both active members of the forum AND people who make our livings from this stuff... We are in a position of having a 'conflict of interest'. We walk a very fine line of not wanting to seem like we're 'putting something down to promote ourselves', when our INTENTIONS are to help inform / protect others & newbies on this forum. Steve and Robert and I (not excluding Matt or Barb from this other than the fact that I haven't DIRECTLY spoken to them about THIS issue) have spoken about the line we walk and our 'intentions'... I assure you that our intentions when talking about issues like this are honorable.

What Robert and I are trying to do is give our fellow X Marks members the advice based on our experience. We both buy fabrics from most of the Kilt Wool weavers. You name a weaver, Batley, Strathmore,D.C. Dalglish, Lochcarron, Marton Mills, we have purchased fabric from them. We know exactly what the wholesale cost of those fabrics are.

We have also held those fabrics. We've made them up into Kilts. All sorts of Kilts. We know what it takes to make a Kilt.

I usually keep sample Kilts in my shop from Jerry, Frugal Corner, The Gold Bros. along with the other end of the spectrum like Barb Tewksbury and the Nicklesby's. These samples are to let customers hold, and compare side by side, the differences and characteristics of each one.

We go to gatherings of our fellow X Marks members like Kilt Nights to see other Kilts, and to see our products after sometimes years of use. For example in Palm Springs this last month I got to see five of my product for the first time since they left my shop. I got to see how they actually fit the customer, how they hung and swished, and how, in a few cases, they are not fairing too well due to something I did wrong.

We then come back here and pass on to you, our fellow members, that which we have learned.

When we see a Kilt that is being sold for about the same price as a pair of cotton underwear, and read the claims of the seller, our experience says "something is strange here". Perhaps it's a typo. Maybe there is something new out there that will revolutionize Kiltmaking for the better. And perhaps it is another case of someone who just resells something and are repeating what they have been told by who they bought it from and don't know any difference. There are a lot of reasons.

But how often have we seen the exact same wording on Kilt re-seller's sites lately? How often have we seen the exact same photos used to promote product from what is reputed to be a different company.

All we are saying is "If you wish to re-sell product, then be honest and open about what you are selling".

What we are saying is "If you wish to buy a product, then be informed about what you are buying".

What we are saying is "If you are happy, and you made an informed decision that your hard earned money is going to exactly the product you want, and that fits your needs, then we have done our job".

When a seller like Jerry at Stillwater is upfront about his product, when he treats his customers openly and fairly, when he delivers exactly what he advertises we applaud him, we support him and we send customers to him that we know would be happier with his product than with our own.

X Marks is a graduate course in Kilts. Our members are better informed, better representitive, of the full spectrum of Kilts than any other single source in the world. We sometimes forget this. We forget that once we were all as new to this as each newby we welcome to our ranks.

When I started, words like Steeking and phrases like Pleating to the Sett didn't drip off my tongue. I learned. Just like each of you.

Don't you wish you had the level of knowledge that you have now when you went to buy your first Kilt? How often do we hear from a new guy something like "Oh I have a Kilt. It was custom made for me in Scotland. But I don't wear it much. I'm here looking for something I can wear and not worry about spilling a beer on it."?
How often do we hear the opposite story?

If it seems like Robert and I are acting like the bad guys here then I'm sorry. We are upholding our responsibility to our fellow members and passing on our knowledge and experience.

In the end it is an informed Kilt buyer that will be a happy Kilt wearer.

[dfmacliam]

The way I see it, if people I respect because of their honesty, and good nature pass on information that could benefit me.... I believe I will listen. I noticed not once did they say do not buy from this seller, they say it is hard to believe they can sell the product as advertised, because of known costs of material they use on a daily basis.
I guess you must make your purchased the way you feel it's nest for you, one review is in, and the customer is happy with what he bought, because he had reasonable expectations. if you buy, just realize you will not receive a hand sewn 16 oz Strome wool kilt made in Scotland by a Scottish kiltmaker, but you will get a product that is being sold at a value for what it's worth.

[Carolina Kiltman]

Early on in my life on this forum, I quoted from a sign in a small factory I used to work in. It still applies here. The gist is as follows (remember, I am remembering a sign from about 60 years back)

"There is nothing made that cannot be made by someone for a lower price by cutting corners on quality of materials or workmanship. The person whose only criteria is price, is this man's lawful prey."

In another thread(s) there is a lot of discussion about the difference between "cheap" and "thrifty". On occasion I have gotten an article of clothing or something else for far below going market price. Usually it is either a showroom sample and slightly shopworn, or something on special order not picked up, and it just happened to be in my size, or fits my needs exactly.

Every time I have let price be the only criteria, I have regretted it.

Disclaimer:

I know nothing about the vendor being discussed here.

[Dan R Porter]

The sgian dubh I ordered was out of stock and refund was recieved.

[Snowbear]

If I am going for a product that costs me some money, I always make the seller give his/her clear toughts about their own products. All I ask for is a bit of their personal opinion about what they are selling. If the seller can only tell me good things about their product; then they don't know enough about what they are dealing with. If he/she can tell me honestly what they think about the good sides and the not so good sides about making a purchase with them, then I will be happy to buy there.

In general I will always pay for better service, and for the professional service. That a seller gives a clear advice is crucial for having me as a customer.

Just like when I was a guide and should sell souvenirs to tourists. I would always tell them the whole truth, not what they want to hear. It's better to let them buy a $5 knife and they knowing it's a fake chinese made. If they really want a good knife, buy the one at $50.

Kiltmakers that help others here on the forum without directly benefit from it will always be the first ones that comes me in mind when I'm advicing others where to get their first kilt.