Why no pubs in America?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

In Scotland my "local" is the Bowler's Rest, in less-then-salubrious Leith (well, there and the New Club). Try as they might, no one in the USA will ever get it right-- it might look like a pub, they might call it a pub, it might even be owned by a fellow Brit or Mick-- but at the end of the day it will still be a themed tavern in America. That's not meant as a put down, merely a statement of fact. One may enjoy having their pint at Paddy O'Furiture's Old Wicklow Arms somewhere in New Jersey, but the experience will be different than if swilling that same pint at Doheny Nesbits or the Bleeding Horse in Dublin.

Put aother way, one could build a wild west town in central Britain, but no matter how accurate it was-- even if it was constructed from a ghost town bought in Colorado, dismantled and shipped to England where it was rebuilt board by board-- it would never be "the real deal". That's because, ultimately, Britain (or Ireland) isn't the USA. To experience the real "Old West" one would have to go to America.

And to experience a real pub, one has to go to the UK or Ireland because they just aren't to be found in shopping malls, or in the trendy neighborhoods of the USA.

[Lachlan09]

I must admit, the older I get, the more comfy I like my drinking surroundings. Nothing can beat a good friendly pub with comfy seats !! Except - a good friendly pub with comfy seats and excellent beers ! Or - a good friendly pub with comfy seats and excellent beers and a pub quiz !!

Like most of the members here, through my drinking career, I’ve been in the highs and the lows when it comes to drinking establishments, from the ”watch your back” seediest dives of Leith and the Cowgate, Brigton and the Gallowgate, Clapham and Old Compton Street, Teluk Betung, Sumatera and Baclaran, Manila - to the rarified designer-sterility of Nouveau Soho (London), Lan Kwai Fong, Hong Kong island and Clark Quay, Singapore.

My favourite pubs though, when I think of comfort and ambience were (and still should be):- The Claret Jug, Great King St, Edinburgh (my Newcastle Brown period); a couple of little hideaway pubs in the lanes in the edge of London’s Square Mile; the Prospect of Whitby, Canning Town, London (you’ve got to love it, it’s 15th Century); The Salisbury, St Martins Lane, Covent Garden, London WC2 (true authentic Victorian pub); The Old China Hand, Wanchai, HK; Majapahit/Mandarin Oriental Hotel, Surabaya; Al Ghazal Pub, Muscat.

I must admit I’ve lost the energy for crowded pubs. I hate those over-crowded pubs and their over-loud voice-babble. I also don’t have energy to fight my way to the bar through the tightly packed mob, shout and wave in competition with many others jostling to get the barman’s attention, lastly manhandling a round of pints in my over-stretched hands through the packed mob to my group’s jealously guarded little corner. :beer:

[David Thornton]

In Scotland my "local" is the Bowler's Rest, in less-then-salubrious Leith (well, there and the New Club). Try as they might, no one in the USA will ever get it right-- it might look like a pub, they might call it a pub, it might even be owned by a fellow Brit or Mick-- but at the end of the day it will still be a themed tavern in America. That's not meant as a put down, merely a statement of fact. One may enjoy having their pint at Paddy O'Furiture's Old Wicklow Arms somewhere in New Jersey, but the experience will be different than if swilling that same pint at Doheny Nesbits or the Bleeding Horse in Dublin.

Put aother way, one could build a wild west town in central Britain, but no matter how accurate it was-- even if it was constructed from a ghost town bought in Colorado, dismantled and shipped to England where it was rebuilt board by board-- it would never be "the real deal". That's because, ultimately, Britain (or Ireland) isn't the USA. To experience the real "Old West" one would have to go to America.

And to experience a real pub, one has to go to the UK or Ireland because they just aren't to be found in shopping malls, or in the trendy neighborhoods of the USA.

I was rightthere with you until the last line, here's the best I've been in in a long time
http://www.lordnelsonbrewery.com/lnbh_joomla/

[12stones]

This is really a pointless discussion unless one solidifies the definition of pub. If you're talking about a British public house, which is where the word pub comes from, then no, you won't find them in America as it defies definition. If you're talking about a standard definition such as that in Merriam-Webster: an establishment where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed, then there are plenty of them everywhere, even the poorly themed ones or the overly-loud sports-based ones.

On the other hand, if you're talking about a subjective idea of what you consider a pub based on readings, experience, trips to the United Kingdom, etc., then who's to say if there are pubs in America or not? Only you can determine that for yourself. I personally think there are. Are they different from pubs in Ireland or Scotland? In practice, maybe, but not in principle.

[beloitpiper]

So...wait. Is the question "Why are there no British pubs in America"? Or just no pubs? Because I agree that anything that calls itself an Irish pub in the States is just a themed bar. But the equivalent of a pub (food, chairs/couches, family hours, general community feeling) can be found all over the US. It may not have wattle-and-daub walls and a bartender you can't understand (well, it may have that), but it still has the same friendly, local, community-focused atmosphere.

[HarborSpringsPiper]

I ran across this article this past summer. Seems that British pubs themselves are on a bit of a slide.

Pubs are closing, but who cares?
By Simon Atkinson
Business reporter, BBC News
Boarded-up boozers are a familiar sight in towns, villages and suburbs alike, so news that UK pubs are closing at a record rate should not come as a surprise.

Almost every news story about the decline of the local comes awash with nostalgia (not to mention the phrase "Last orders..." or "Time called..." being shoe-horned into the headline.)

But given there are still more than 53,000 of them across the UK, does losing a few pubs really matter?

“ I know it's tough out there, but a lot of pub closures are due to standards dropping ”
Mark Hopkins Publican
Among brewing industry figures, publicans and customers there is some general consensus about why pubs fall by by the wayside - which they are doing at a rate of 52 each week, according to the British Beer and Pub Association.

The more diplomatic say establishments fail because they do not meet customer needs.

Others less subtly argue it is because they are "just crap".

'Not listening'

Publicans failing to respond to their customers and not providing the services they want is an industry problem says Mark Hopkins, who took over the Black Swan in Harrogate, North Yorkshire, five years ago, after it had closed down.

Now an increasing slice of his custom is coming from surrounding villages, where the local pub has shut.

"You just have to listen to the customer and respond to what they want, not what you want," he says, adding that supplying the right range of drinks and food is just part of it.

A friendly welcome and polite, presentable bar staff have helped make his business a success, Mr Hopkins adds, not to mention the clean toilets which are a key barometer for "ladies judging a business".

"I know it's tough out there, and I've had my share of hard times, but a lot of pub closures are due to standards dropping," Mr Hopkins adds.

“ We've changed from an industrial society to more of a service industry ”
Mark Hunter Chief executive, Coors
"People need to be made welcome, whether they are a regular or a first-time customer. If they are going to spend £10, they have to feel it has been earned from them."

More to shut

Clearly, not every pub which struggles is being badly run.

The smoking ban and high alcohol duty have been blamed for many of the closures.

And with rising unemployment, pay freezes and diminishing savings rates, perhaps the pub is less appealing when you can buy a bottle of wine or a four-pack of lager in the supermarket for the same price as a glass at your local.

Meanwhile, developers making tempting offers for buildings has been another big threat to the industry - though one that has taken a back seat since the slide in property prices.

Through a combination of these issues, UK alcohol sales are shifting from the pub to the shop.

And the chief executive of Coors, the producer of Carling lager, has predicted that a quarter of UK pubs are set to disappear over the next decade.

But in comments to analysts Mark Hunter claimed this was "no bad thing" for the beer industry - adding that too many establishments had failed to modernise.

"These are pubs from a period in history where their proposition is no longer relevant, where we've changed from an industrial society to more of a service industry," Mr Hunter said.

"Those pubs that survive will have strong hospitality propositions and consumers will enjoy a better experience in the medium to long term."

His comments contrast with "save the pub" campaigns from the Campaign for Real Ale (Camra) and the BBPA, which urge the government help to support the pub industry.

“ There has been a lot of research that shows pubs are an incredibly important to communities ”
Jonathan Mail Camra
Both organisations are adamant that pubs contribute far more than the jobs they create and the tax they bring in.

Vulnerable

Camra estimates that about 40,000 of the UK's boozers are so-called community pubs - those which serve the people who live or work around them.

And the latest BBPA research suggested that it was these local pubs that were most vulnerable, while, in contrast, branded pubs and cafe-style bars were opening at a rate of two a week.

"There has been a lot of research that shows pubs are incredibly important to communities," says Camra's Jonathan Mail.

Benefits include supporting local charities and sports teams, allowing social interaction and providing a place to drink in a safe, regulated and controlled environment, he adds.

Meanwhile, relaxing in a pub environment can improve health and well-being, Mr Mail argues.

"We would not argue that every pub should stay open, because there are circumstances that pubs become unviable.

"But the vast majority are viable businesses which could have a positive and sustainable future."

To the original question, everywhere I have lived has had a locally owned and run establishment where all of the regulars know one another. I don't call them pubs in the US, but I see no difference from these and the ones I frequented when I lived in the Commonwealth countries. I can't stand themed chain bar/restaurants, but they're better than a parched throat!

[St. Amish]

I laid a beautiful hand-scraped hickory floor in a pub that opened in downtown Santa Rosa, California. The owner spent a lot of money getting an absolutely beautiful custom bar installed, and put his collection of recruitment posters, Guinness memorabilia, and assorted sports posters up on the walls. It was a beautiful Irish-style pub, down to the menu, until it opened.

The crowd up there wanted another hip-hop bar, not a pub, and the guy was forced to make his dream into "just another bar" that happened to have amazing decor.

[davidlpope]

Not British (despite the name), but one of the neatest "American Pubs" I know of:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...012400029.html

If you're in Quantico you should stop by.

Cordially,

David

[jkane]

There is an Irish bar north of Milwaukee that is owned by a man from Ireland. It is not just themed. He and his family entertain the guests with music and comedy. It is a fantastic place to go on a Friday night. Called Finn's Pub or something like that. I can drive there, but never really look at the sign to remember the actual name. ;)

[SteveB]

The Globe and Laurel is a nice bar and good conversation, or at least in the 70's when I would visit while on assignment nearby.

One thing that keeps most places in America from having the pub as is suggested in some of the posts is the ever present over abundance of Gouvernment regulations. A nearby pub that is owned by an older Greek gent has no telly, other than in the back kitchen for the staff to enjoy when there are no customers in the premise. He has no separate serving area, tables, chairs or other furniture. The entertainment is by the customer and conversation only. If you order a pint in his house, you should plan on being conversant, or plan to leave. The establishment is clean, ancient, and well worn, including the floorboards. The fact that smoking has been prohibited for a large number of years is the only reason the odor has changed at all in the place. He must serve a certain amount of food to keep his license, so he pushes quite a bit of prepackaged mystery meat sandwiches that he brings from the local market.

Slainte