Women in Kilts?

[ccga3359]

There was a time when pants were strickly for men. Now its more common to see a woman wearing them than a woman in a skirt.

Could this be why there is so much Resistance to women in kilts? The kilt, the last bastion of a man's domain and identity.

[Dreadbelly]

Well, for a voluptuous full figured woman, a kilt may just the thing. For one thing, a kilt is sturdy and solid. Women's skirts to tend toward the flimsy side. With the right cut and tailoring, a kilt would do the same thing for a woman as it does for a man... Hold stuff in and accentuate the figure, making it more flattering by altering the silhouette in all of the right places. I may kick my self for saying this, but I know what a kilt does for me as a person of odd body size and shape... And how hard it is to find functional clothing that fits. I wouldn't deny anybody the chance to be comfortable and look good, and lets face it, womens' clothing has become, well, fixated on the very very thin. My wife is full figured... And she has one hell of a time finding clothing that not only fits her, but is also flattering to her. She does not want to wear hip huggers in a size 16 because she knows that just wouldn't look right. I'd really like to have a chance someday soon to maybe make something for her that would look nice. A kilt might be just the ticket.

[Matthew]

I'm going to vote; absolutely not. Women, unless involved in Highland Dance or piping have absolutely no business wearing the kilt. It's wrong and there are no two ways about it. Those here who answered and feel that women should wear kilts and agreed to the practice probably didn't read the intro to this site, maybe I missed something but where in this does it mention anything about women taking over the only real man's garment?:

X Marks the Scot is a community of kilt wearers and those who encourage the wearing of kilts. Kilts are a man's garment and it is our goal to promote the wearing of the kilt in more than just the "Highland Games" situation. This is not a forum for men looking to wear womens clothing* nor is it a forum for other types of men's un-bifurbricated garments. If you want to know more about kilts then you have come to the right place!

* I doubt that it meant was for women wanting to wear men's garments either.

And why are we even discussing it?

Chris.

I have to agree with KiltedKnight here.

There really are many ways for a lady to wear tartan if she wishes without wearing a mans garment. There are plenty of womens kilted skirts, and tartan dresses. In my mind it's hard to talk to somone while wearing a kilt and tell them it's a man's garment if I condone women wearing them. That just sends out a confusing message to the unlearned unkilted public. Why make it harder and more confusing. After all we need all the help week can get

It's been said about women taking over pants also but, I really don't feel that women wearing pants cut for men is right. Why do we not allow men who crossdress on this board (which I do agree with) but condone women "crossdressing" in a mans kilt? It seems very hypocritical and confusing to me. True a kilt looks much like a womans skirt but a mans pair of jeans looks alot like a womens pair of jeans, and i think I'm with every man here when I say I wouldn't be caught dead in womens jeans
Now offense meant to the gents and lassies here at Xmarks but somtimes it seems we lose our "standards" if you will, when it comes to the fairer sex

In my mind there must be a line drawn between womens clothing, and mens. Elsewise we will lose the standing we have on the kilt being a masculine garment meant for men and simply be wearing a unisex garment, and when john Q public shouts at us "you're wearing a womans clothes!" what will we say? They'll be correct.

Anyway no offense meant to anyone but these are my personal feelings towards the subject

[Canuck]

Matt Newsome's coments on this subject should be made a "sticky" so that everytime we do this circle it can easily be refered to.

[SnakeEyes]

Perhaps I would have done better not to ask. I'm sorry if I've got anyone riled up, honestly folks. That's not why I came here.

I would like to point out, however that this...

Why do we not allow men who crossdress on this board (which I do agree with) but condone women "crossdressing" in a mans kilt?

... Doesn't sound very tollerant. I think the idea is that you don't allow discussions about men crossdressing. Just plain not allowing them to be members seems a bit overboard. Perhaps there could be some agreement about how women members should conduct themselves when using the forums? I dunno.

But that's beside the point. As the person who started this thread I'd like to be the first person who suggest that it be moved to the "Penalty Box".

[Kiltman]

Why would she want to wear a man's kilt?

[angel923]

gentlemen and ladies, being new to the kilt wearing world I find it interesting at how close minded the people I meet can be. When I read the mission of this forum I understood it to be about promoting the wearing of the kilt not the blocking of one group of people from wearing them. Ladies if the kilt fits and makes you happy wear one, men if the kilt fits and makes you happy wear it, and everyone let us work together to promote this proud garmet as a viable choice for fashion for everyone and give the manufacturers of lesser garmets a reason to recognize that what we all want is to have the shackles of the plastic doll like model mold of society thrown out and the freedom to choose what to wear on our own.

[Panache]

To those that wear the kilt-a cheer
It's the reason that we're all here

If man or woman, black or white
Go wear the kilt as is your right

Be you thinly or stoutly built
feel grand and happy in your kilt

Rejoice and welcome all aboard
Kilts are not for one group to hoard

Wear them well and wear them with pride
What counts most is on the inside

Be you a sister or brother
This forum let's share together

Be gentle in your words and deeds
walk together, try not to lead

The company is good to keep
The road is long, the hill is steep

Share this path and enjoy this fun
This journey has hardly begun

[Matthew]

... Doesn't sound very tollerant. I think the idea is that you don't allow discussions about men crossdressing. Just plain not allowing them to be members seems a bit overboard. Perhaps there could be some agreement about how women members should conduct themselves when using the forums? I dunno.

That's what I meant, discussion not joining, I was saying that we don't allow men to discuss crossdressing on this forum but we're letting women. Sorry for the typo

[Nanook]

Which brings up a point -- what is the essential difference between a man's kilt and a lady's kilted skirt?

I see men's and women's kilted garments in convergence.

High rise kilts (what I think of as the epitome of the "modern kilt") are, save among the military, almost as common as hen's teeth.

Between the "contemporary" kilt and kilted skirts, I think, the main differences (if there are any) are found among quality, workmanship and cost. The same is really the case with children's kilts (although my son got a "vintage" kilt made of the best heavyweight cloth to the absolute highest standards I've every seen in any kilt) and between the boys and girls versions of their kilted skirts (beyond the right/left closure my daughter's "kilts" tend to be made more economically using also elastic in the waistbands, less cloth and much less sewing). As men's kilts become more "fashion" (and less expected to be worn consistently for many years if not decades) and closets fill-- witness the shift in the entire men's clothing industry over the past 50 years towards more fashionable, disposable, casual items away from (robust and only slightly evolving) suits and hats--- the difference is becoming less clear (and consensus seems to support a view towards increased pressure to cheapen-down the kilt to become more accessible to a wider market).

Most of the less formal men's kilted garments such as the Kinloch-Anderson Breacan--- which I really do like--- are only in details (such as a bit more cloth and more pleats) to be distinguished from their kilted skirt. A man would probably wear them tighter and a women more loosely hanging from the hips but that's defined more by "how one might wear a garment" rather than the item itself. TFCK Howie seems to like to have (men's) kilts hang low on the hips while many of the girls in parochial schools wear their (kilted) uniforms (quite) tight (and hemmed a bit short so as to move up their thighs when the headmistress is not watching).

TYPICALLY (and I emphasize that word), a lady's kilted skirt is made from about 4 yards of light weight wool, machine stitched, and knife pleated to no particular pattern. It fastens on the left.

That's for cost reasons. Such skirts are much cheaper to make and cheaper to sell. Given the short fashion life cycles the only way to make a good profit is to set a high margin. Low prices and high margins don't yield much room for workmanship. The same can be said of cheap (glued and fused) men's suits that American men typically purchase and wear (again emphasize "TYPICAL" since some of the finest men's suits are not just sold in American but also made in America). Better quality wonen's skirts, however, do match their patterns.

Joe will probably wear his with a heavy leather belt, sporran, kilt hose, and boots. Jane might wear hers with a nice blouse, pantyhose, and pumps. And they will both probably look stunning!

The picture I posted above (from Kinloch Anderson) shows a women in a "nice blouse" that is quite popular for less formal "Highland dress". Its quite a (historical) (gentle)man's style. My little "princess" calls her ivory lace Jabot "her prince shirt".

pantyhose,

Or knee high socks.

and pumps. And they will both probably look stunning!

And pumps are little more than an evolved version of a court shoe--- again a style that is historically quite male (and still worn at Old Bailey). I think I wrote of these elsewhere on this site.

Another person asked about the line that separates men's from women's clothing. I think the closer one looks at women's fashion the more one finds male styles and elements and much of men's casual clothing has re-imported and integrated much from woman's wear. The difference, I think, is in the wearer and gender identification. A woman can be quite "sexy" and feminine in a male garment (as Marlene Dietrich illustrated over 75 years ago in "Der Blaue Engel"/"The Blue Angel") just as a man can be androgynous to outright effeminate in blue jeans or another masculine in a "dress" (a style of man's clothing found in the Middle East, Asia and the far East). Traditionally one had the concept of "local custom" but in an urbanized, multi-ethnic global media village--- in Tehran, for instance, under the shrouds are a mass of "Angelina Jolies" fresh from plastic surgery--- we increasingly can't talk of local custom. In the end its less, I think, about what styles we wear but how.