Some more do's and don'ts on the board

[Jock Scot]

But you're "born to it", Jock and so, I expect, is Redshank. Comparing each other's kilt knowledge is comparing apples to apples... you're in a similar league.

It's when a newbie is held up to that high standard, rather than led up to that standard, that problems can set in. The fact is, you're quite good at expressing an unvarnished opinion in a palatable way...but not everyone threads that needle.

You are too kind. The trouble is the uneducated(sorry) kilt wearer who is desperately trying to get things right is being fed false,even if well intentioned, information by those that do not know what they are talking about. "The blind leading the blind", if you like. Now I grant you that there are ways of passing on helpful information to assist the new kilt wearer without putting him off and some of us do try with varying amounts of success. However "Redshank" ,me and others do despair at the" looking good" type comment when it is patently obvious that they don't!

The frustration that "Redshank" has just shown is frankly, quite understandable. The only way to get the message across is plain speaking and be known for it, and any one who has read "Redshank's" posts knows full well that he is more than helpful to anyone who needs it, courteous and honest! Nevertheless he is quite correct to point out, rather bluntly I grant you, the dangers of the false praise that haunts this website.

[Chas]

You are too kind. The trouble is the uneducated(sorry) kilt wearer who is desperately trying to get things right is being fed false,even if well intentioned, information by those that do not know what they are talking about. "The blind leading the blind", if you like. Now I grant you that there are ways of passing on helpful information to assist the new kilt wearer without putting him off and some of us do try with varying amounts of success. However "Redshank" ,me and others do despair at the" looking good" type comment when it is patently obvious that they don't!

The frustration that "Redshank" has just shown is frankly, quite understandable. The only way to get the message across is plain speaking and be known for it, and any one who has read "Redshank's" posts knows full well that he is more than helpful to anyone who needs it, courteous and honest! Nevertheless he is quite correct to point out the dangers of the false praise that haunts this website.

I agree. I get so frustrated when I see a reply to a post, that is so obviously wrong. How many times have we seen a reply saying 'Well Done' or 'Good Job' or 'Wear it Well', when the OP has delivered bad news or a complaint about a kilt or services. I sometimes wonder if members post purely to boost their post count.

Regards

Chas

[sfb]

If you go to the trouble of posting that someone's looking good when you don't actually hold that opinion, then that's kind of daft, I agree. But if I think someone's looking good, then if I choose to tell them that, I couldn't care less what other folk think about it. However "educated" those other folk might be.


Just because my opinion of how someone looks differs from someone else's, it doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

[McClef]

Hey! Lose the cup and saucer!

Seriously though Jamie has given us some very good examples to think about.

I am one of those who has usually preferred to say nothing at all when I did not feel able to compliment rather than give false praise.

But encouragement is the key. Heck people are discovering the joys of the kilt and might not be starting off with the most glamorous and elegant outfit which might be for a variety of reasons from economics to lack of knowledge.

And there are indeed ways of gentle correction that encourage rather than make someone feel made small of or discouraged and ways of encouragement that point out suggestions for improvements.

Definitely food for thought.

[Panache]

... Nevertheless he is quite correct to point out, rather bluntly I grant you, the dangers of the false praise that haunts this website.

Jock,

Having read a lot of Kilt Forums on the Internet I can say in all truth I see a lot less "Attaboys" here than elsewhere.

A lot less!

Like everything else in life involving people there will be those you agree with and those you disagree with.

Now you can complain about those you disagree with or you can stand up for what you think is right.

My point is and has been that the truth can be offered in polite, friendly, and helpful ways.

One can go ahead and share one's opinion with complete candor...

Of course this might be really cruel and mean sounding...

which might put people off to what one says...

and by association one's opinions...

which means that the things one might be trying to promote are actually hurt by one's words and actions...

hmmm...

It just maybe that politeness and consideration actual help promoting one's point of view, because people will actually read what one writes instead of putting one on an "ignore list" (be it VBulletin's or a mental list of people to disregard)

After all, a completely honest jerk is still a jerk

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[Panache]

I agree. I get so frustrated when I see a reply to a post, that is so obviously wrong. How many times have we seen a reply saying 'Well Done' or 'Good Job' or 'Wear it Well', when the OP has delivered bad news or a complaint about a kilt or services. I sometimes wonder if members post purely to boost their post count.

Regards

Chas

Chas,

I am in agreement with you that it is frustrating to read posts where the writer obviously didn't read the original post or the responses thereafter.

I always try to read the full thread before responding out of respect and courtesy to all those that have contributed to the thread.

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[Jock Scot]

Jamie, I am all for courtesy and common sense and if people don't like what I have to say, then so be it, I can live with that. However, with the greatest of respect, you still are avoiding the issue that "Redshank" has raised and of course, had it been phrased rather more to your liking, you may have felt more inclined to address his valid point. On the other hand had he phrased it more to your liking, perhaps the issue may have escaped yours and others notice?

[Chas]

Chas,

I am in agreement with you that it is frustrating to read posts where the writer obviously didn't read the original post or the responses thereafter.

I always try to read the full thread before responding out of respect and courtesy to all those that have contributed to the thread.

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

Jamie

I find it is like walking a tightrope.

As a manager, I have had to be critical of people to their face - SO EASY. Reading the body language, projecting the same back, smiling, tone of voice, pausing, emphasis, tilt of the head, just the right gestures. All of these put together can turn a severe disciplinary meeting into team building exercises.

But in print - so difficult. So often, I have composed a reply only to abandon it, because I know that I will not be able to project adequately what I want to say or that my words might be misconstrued.

Regards

Chas

[Panache]

Jamie, I am all for courtesy and common sense and if people don't like what I have to say, then so be it, I can live with that. However, with the greatest of respect, you still are avoiding the issue that "Redshank" has raised and of course, had it been phrased rather more to your liking, you may have felt more inclined to address his valid point. On the other hand had he phrased it more to your liking, perhaps the issue may have escaped yours and others notice?

Jock,

Whatever useful thought Redshank was trying to get across was lost to me because Redshank's comment was rude

He could have advocated something positive

Instead he choose to insult the forum and a its members and make a gross exaggeration

I have endeavored to show that honest opinions can be given in a constructive manner and have tried to lead by example

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:

[Jock Scot]

So you are not going to address the valid point that "redshshank" raised? You are hiding behind the excuse of bad manners,sir!