The Crow nation

[macwilkin]

Sorry for the generalization, my next post will contain footnotes on all contradictions to any statement I may make.

Apologies if I offended by opening up a point of discussion. Your generalization certainly has a large element of truth to it. In fact, Calloway's book does discuss how Highlanders & First Nations were treated as "savages" by the English on numerous occasions.

This is exactly why my wife refuses to watch historical movies with me anymore.

T.

[BoldHighlander]

The Johnsons were Irish, not Scottish (Sir William was born in Co. Meath) but they certainly had ties to a number of Highlanders that lived on their estate. You are quite right; they certainly do not get the recognition they deserve, or their protege, Joseph Brant.

We have a recent biography of Sir William, White Savage: William Johnson and the Invention of America by Fintan O'Toole, in our library; I need to read it sometime.

I seem to remember a made-for-tv movie about Joseph Brant that had Pierce Brosnan playing Sir William.

T.

That would be 'The Broken Chain' with Wes Studi (Uncas in Last of the Mohicans) as Brant. The film wasn't bad, however my only real complaint was they didn't spend enough time on the Rev War period & the 'Monster Brant', and too much on the whole Law Giver visions thing.

Having one time "served" in the role as adjutant for the recreated Brant's Volunteers (Brigade of the American Revolution), I have a deep interest in the Johnson's & Brant.

I'm glad someone brought in William and John Johnson, father and son. They were a couple of remarkable Scots Irish men who lived sort of baronial Northern Irish style lives right in amongst the Iroquois and forged a major alliance between them the Crown before the Revolution- and were probably the deciding factor in why those Iroquois fought on the side of the British. The Johnsons would probably be as famous today as Boone and Crockett are if they hadn't fought on the losing side. John in particular was quite a vindictive fighter on the British side, according to what I've been told; even Canadian Loyalist descendants tend not to like him very much.

If you have a great interest in Sir John Johnson & his activities in the war, I'd recommend two books written by one of the top Canadian historians on the Loyalists (as well as founder & past commander of the recreated KRR NY) Gavin Watt.
They are Rebellion in the Mohawk Valley: The St. Leger Expedition of 1777,
and The Burning of the Valleys: Daring Raids from Canada against the New York frontier in the fall of 1780.
Both very well written & researched (& not dry history, if you know what I mean?). Both books also discuss the Native Allies & their roles including Brant, Old Smoke & Cornplanter (of the Seneca).

And my grandmother was a Brant, on my fathers side, which is where my Mohawk blood comes from.

Ah-ha! Then your kinsmen ran the war trail with mine!

I have Brandt blood (a Dutch New York family). My cousin, Andrew Brandt, was a nephew of Colonel John Butler (founder & commander of the Loyalist Corps Butler's Rangers), and commanded one of the more active companies of the Rangers (Brandt's Co'y raided Wheeling, West VA in 1782 the last major action of the ranger corps of the war).

Brandt was also an officer in the Indian Dept, and would've known Brant

[Lallans]

Boldhighlander, you are clearly revealed as a closet Canadian! Thanks for the book recommendations, which I will hopefully still have to hand after I retire, or sooner!

And thanks also to Cajunscot for mentioning the 'White Savage' book about Sir William Johnson/MacShane.

[Andy Proffitt]

Apologies if I offended by opening up a point of discussion. Your generalization certainly has a large element of truth to it. In fact, Calloway's book does discuss how Highlanders & First Nations were treated as "savages" by the English on numerous occasions.

This is exactly why my wife refuses to watch historical movies with me anymore.

T.

Yeah,anything concerning WW2 and the Spartans and especially the History Channel Hour Specials have pretty much been banned when the Spousal Unit is within earshot.

PS I wouldn't be banned if the History Channel wouldn't mangle Beowulf, the Viking Mythologies and anything else in their CLASH OF THE GODS series

[BoldHighlander]

Boldhighlander, you are clearly revealed as a closet Canadian! Thanks for the book recommendations, which I will hopefully still have to hand after I retire, or sooner!

Hmmmm.....Well, one of my first puppy loves (age 13) was from Victoria B.C. (the other a little later was a Nez Perce...keeping to the Native theme of the thread ), another gal I dated in late teens was from Langley B.C.. My wife is a Texan/Canadian (her mum is originally from Ontario), as noted I had a cousin in Butler's Rangers (plus three more in the grenadier co'y of the Queen's Rangers), and a deep respect for the Canadian kilted regiments. Yeah, there might be something to that statement!

[Colin MacBean]

Actually, the First Nations tended to side with the British during the Revolution. Same with the Highland Scots -- both tribal peoples didn't get along well with their American neighbors. See the aforementioned book by Colin Calloway.

T.

Agreed. The Americans exploited the native Americans far worse than the British ever did. The British also banned slavery long before them That being said the British started it all in the first place

[macwilkin]

That would be 'The Broken Chain' with Wes Studi (Uncas in Last of the Mohicans) as Brant. The film wasn't bad, however my only real complaint was they didn't spend enough time on the Rev War period & the 'Monster Brant', and too much on the whole Law Giver visions thing.

Many thanks, Terry -- did a quick recce on Netflix, but it appears it is not available on DVD, more's the pity. I remember it being a fairly well done film, although Wes Studi was Magua.

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that your Loyalist ancestors and my Patriot ancestors squared off at some point, as my Williamsons, a father and five sons, were members of the Pennsylvania Militia and saw service in the Ohio campaigns in the 1780s.

T.

[Bugbear]

Agreed. The Americans exploited the native Americans far worse than the British ever did. The British also banned slavery long before them That being said the British started it all in the first place

That's for sure, and it went beyond exploitation, and lasted beyond slavery, too. That some of the First Peoples' cultures are still with us is amazing. These are a couple of very interesting books I've read who's titles happen to show relevant dates.

Boarding School Seasons: American Indian Families, 1900-1940, by Brenda J. Child; U of Nebraska P, 2000.
Education for Extinction: American Indians and the Boarding School Experience, 1875-1928, by David Wallace Adams; UP of Kansas, 1995.

[BoldHighlander]

Many thanks, Terry -- did a quick recce on Netflix, but it appears it is not available on DVD, more's the pity. I remember it being a fairly well done film, although Wes Studi was Magua.

Your right Todd, momentary brain-fart
I meant Eric Schweig as Brant (& Uncas), though Wes Studi was in Broken Chain as well. I also failed to mention that it wasn't available on dvd...I've looked for it for a long time (I'm not sure if the video is still available or not?).
Sorry

I would bet dollars to doughnuts that your Loyalist ancestors and my Patriot ancestors squared off at some point, as my Williamsons, a father and five sons, were members of the Pennsylvania Militia and saw service in the Ohio campaigns in the 1780s.

Possible
It's also possible that my QR's ancestors met another of my ancestors in the Southern campaign. He was Scots-Irish who was in the NC militia, and found himself later at the Battle of Camden (where he was crippled for life at the age of 21).
Another Scots-Irish ancestor of mine was too old for active service, and was a recruiting officer (in Virginia I believe).

Cool stuff, be neat to take a time machine!

[BoldHighlander]

Boarding School Seasons: American Indian Families, 1900-1940, by Brenda J. Child; U of Nebraska P, 2000.
Education for Extinction: American Indians and the Boarding School Experience, 1875-1928, by David Wallace Adams; UP of Kansas, 1995.

Horrible stuff, that!