Tracing Family roots

[Panache]

A noble pursuit oh Blood-thirsty, Celtic-haired, Amazon-Flaming Goddess...

CT,

Wrong person. The “Celtic Amazon Goddess” isn’t my lovely wife, The Flame-Haired Celtic Amazon Goddess. The Celtic Amazon Goddess joined recently and by odd coincidence picked a name very similar to hers.

Cheers

Jamie

[gilmore]

Uhhh, geeee, that's a good question. Hmmm, let me see, why did I help her locate Skitten Muir? (Which was actually no bother at all, but thanks for your concern.)

Oh yeah, now I remember. I 'bothered' because she asked. I'll post the quote again and I'll try to type more slowly.

I hope that didn't go by you so quickly this time and that you can see she was asking W-H-E-R-E Skida Muir is located. Makes no difference to me if it has any relationship with anyone's family, she was asking where a place might be located and I was able to help her.

I reiterate: in the context of this thread, "Tracing family roots," why else would some one be interested in place names that is the same as one's surname but have no other connection with it, unless some one hoped to be able to leap backward across the centuries, choose a place name and then start working forward from it to one's proven ancestry? Place names, especially descriptive ones such as the one under discussion, come and go and are forgotten over the centuries. People make mistaken assumptions often these days, and are chargined when they discovered they have spent years going the wrong way tracing a false lead. In genealogy we always work from the present backward, a generation at a time.

You can continue trying to steer the discussion away from that simple fact, but from where I sit you are only making yourself look silly.


.... As another has pointed out to me, it is a wonder that we've managed to get along so well around here without you pointing out how wrong we've all been.

I'm not sure if you crawled out of the wrong side of your kip, didn't get enough coffee or what burr it is you seem to have under your saddle, but I don't need you ankle-biting me. Go nip, snarl and make nuisance of yourself someplace else, aye?


Here you are correct, there may be absolutely no connection. But if you have learned a bit about a historic area of Scotland, then you have been made slightly richer in knowledge and it truly wasn't a waste of anyone's time.

As you point out, you are indeed not alone in having been mistaken in an assumption, or "how wrong we've all been." The internet has been both a boon and a curse for the more serious genealogical researchers. On the one hand it can make our work much easier. Rather than going to the federal archives (across town or across 5 states) and then slowly going through reel after reel of microfilm, we can subscribe to ancestry.com and do an online search of census records for the person we are looking for. On the other hand, the boom in newbies interested in genealogy with no notions of quality control or context has resulted in an incredibly huge boom in very bad genealogical information online, bad info that is passed on and on and on, and mistakenly accepted as fact by larger and larger numbers of people. I am happy to do whatever I can to help inform newcomers to genealogy of common pitfalls.

Going from past to present is one of these. We always workd backward. To give an example of why: I am descended from a woman named Anne Bruce. There is a family story that she was a direct descendant of Robert the Bruce. So, a cousin went to Scotland to trace our descent from Robert the Bruce forward. Of course, when she got there, she discovered that his male line died out rather quickly. It is possible that we descend from Robert the Bruce, but the only way to show it is to go backward, generation by generation, from what we know. It's true that one does ocassionally come across a "treasure trove" of reliable research some one else has already done, but these are few and far between, especially when we are first starting out.

I have somewhere links to FAQ for genealogical newbies that I hope to find and post that may prove helpful.

[gilmore]

We start genealogical research by asking our oldest family members for information about themselves and their forebears. Here is a link to a site with some suggested questions that can get that conversation started: http://genealogy.about.com/cs/oralhi.../interview.htm

There are several other links to sites with tips on taking oral histories: http://genealogy.about.com/od/oral_history/

[CameronTaylor]

CT,

Wrong person. The “Celtic Amazon Goddess” isn’t my lovely wife, The Flame-Haired Celtic Amazon Goddess. The Celtic Amazon Goddess joined recently and by odd coincidence picked a name very similar to hers.

Cheers

Jamie

OK, .... (cornfusion = welding with crops)


CT - uh beer please.

[Mike1]

I reiterate: in the context of this thread, "Tracing family roots," why else would some one be interested in place names... <pedantry snipped>

Excuse me, but if you could take a few moments to review the question asked about the place name under discussion, you should be able to sort the question was not asked by myself, but by another. I have no idea of why Scratchy's Lass wanted to know where Skida Muir is located, I simply answered her question. The motivation behind her interest is not known to me, so I can provide you no answer whatsoever.

Nor do I understand the motivation behind your desire to withhold information from a person seeking it.

Now that you've repetitively reminded everyone of the generally accepted practice of genealogical research, allow me to point out that no one has disagreed with the method you've mentioned. So, will it be necessary for you to be sharing it with us yet again?

[gilmore]

Excuse me, but if you could take a few moments to review the question asked about the place name under discussion, you should be able to sort the question was not asked by myself, but by another. I have no idea of why Scratchy's Lass wanted to know where Skida Muir is located, I simply answered her question. The motivation behind her interest is not known to me, so I can provide you no answer whatsoever.?

The original poster's motivation was set out in her post to which you responded. Her surname, her maiden name, is the same as the place names in question.

<<<Nor do I understand the motivation behind your desire to withhold information from a person seeking it.>>>

That is a bald mistatement. I simply question the wisdom that line of inquiry.

[MacWage]

On Geneology:

The best way is to work backwards, yes.
Also, it is good to use other RELIABLE folks who have done the research already and work WITH them to check, confirm, and move the research forward (well, actually, backward and outward).

In my own case, as was noted in a past thread, there is a fair amount of research already done. I "fiddled" with it a bit, but was too busy with other things (college and graduate studies) to get as complex as I hoped and I gradually "fell out" of the work. For my cousin's wedding, his brother took time off and did the work further than I had done. He also confirmed all of my post-1800s suspicions (all in Georgia, USA). We are descended from a man named Joel Wages, born in South Carolina and moved to GA. Yet, no one knows exactly WHERE he came from. For over a decade, DOZENS of Wages looked and looked for ANY lead without finding ANYTHING. There are 2 Wages groups in SC (which SURPRISED everyone involved, as the numbers of Wages are SO small that we all thought we were the same family). One is German. This group was not known to be separate from the other until the Wages researchers spent years studying them and trying to see of there were any connections to Joel. The present descendants of that branch got interested in Genealogy and discovered they were NOT of the main, other branch that came down from Virginia. They, rather, came over in a separate migration.
The Wages researcher who did A LOT of work on the other (non-German) branch happens to be also a descendant of Joel, through a different son (and one I had emailed a bit in my period of research). Well, during this "dead" period, she researched and charted this branch back to a man named William Wages/Wager/Wagers (she has seen all three for him in the same source), who came over with 9 others as a group in 1691. One document is:
"WILLIAM WAGER Arrived Henrico, Co., VA Order Book and Wills, 1678-1693 Book 2, Pg 432. Peter Rowlett petitioned for 450 acres for importing 9 persons into colony: William Wager, Susannah Smith, John Unite, John James, Eliza Smith, John Potter, Thomas Nicholls, Eliza Clarke, George Smith.(cited in Henrico County, Virginia Deeds 1677-1705, Benjamin B. Weisiger III, 1986)"
NOW, NO ONE knows where William came from, though some THINK he may have been Scottish due to the OTHER names that came with him.
She, also, has good reason to believe that Joel is NOT of the German branch, but of the other mystery branch. It is hoped that the Y-Chromosone research may decide/prove once and for all. Once THIS bridge is crossed, HUNDREDS of Wages will be ESTATIC!!!
In this case, I trust her research, as what I looked at holds up (as does my cousin).
When I have time, inclination, and possible sources (people who may know something), I have asked about POSSIBILITIES as to where William may have come from and what holds water as worth looking into and what does not.

My point:
Sometimes a question is asked, that has A LOT of pertinant reason and research behind it. It may be VERY helpful to answer that question.
Mike DID that. She asked WHERE.
In the past, I have asked IF Wages/Wager/Wagers EXISTED in X group AT ALL. It may have been MADE UP too (The time provides the possibility that it was a Wallace or distiller (Wiskeyer/Uisger?) escaping the Mar/Erskine Jacobite Rebellion with an adopted "cover" name). The question is to eliminate possibilites, BUT I don't really want to get into all the details as to WHY I am asking.

[Sir Robert]

You unless you have a twin there is only one of you. Two parents, four grandparents, 8GG, 16GGG, 32GGGG, 64GGGGG, etc. At some point the number exceeds the number of humans on Earth. We know from genetic studies that we (all humans) have common ancestors, mathmatically that may be no farther back than the time of Christ. We (us humans) are all blood kin.

King Henry the Third (IIRC) had eight children. Guess what? 80% of all Englishmen can trace their roots to him. Yes, that is right, 80%+ of England is noble.

Lets go back to pictland around 700AD, the last Picts were Christianized and something like recorded history starts. We know that these people had already been there from the Neolithic times. These people were matralinial and decent was from mother to child. Mixed in there were the Irish who were patrilinial. We decend from and inheirit from both sides. We are direct decendants of Irish Kings and Pictish Queens. Keep in mind that we have royal blood in and out of our lines for thousands of years.

So here you are doing your Geneology and you get to ancestor "Argyle Mac Donal" of the Mc Donnell of Sleet Clan, who you think is your GGGGGGGranddad but you made a mistake and this guy is not your sire but his third cousin Angus McDonnell is instead. Well go back a little way the their common GGranddad and you get back to the same line anyway. Arguements that any mistake no matter how small utterly distroy your geneology is well... BS! Working forward that is true but working backward is is not.

Let me give you an example from my geneology there were 5 families of "Donnell" in Guilliford NC now we know that 4 of them were close kin, brothers, nephews that sort of thing. The fifth bunch of "Donnell" we can not tie conclusively to the other 4. Well Robert Donnell married Anne Donnell. Either he married his sister or more likely one of the Donnell girls from the other 4 families. Now my cousin says to not let the 5th family confuse you there is no tie in. Well look we are not talking about the name "Smith" here, there is a 100% chance that these 5 families are related and if they weren't before they are related by marrage now so what is the differance? Nothing.

My Father is of Scots decent, my Mother is of Scots decent. Yeah there is a little sprinkling of Dutch, German and English names mixed in but the bulk point to Scotland. I am a Scot on my Dad's side and a Pict on Mom's. So are we all.

[oregonscot]

I must agree with Sir Robert. My last name,Greenly, is not very common, at least not on the west coast. I found and talked with someone from Pennsylvania, with the same last name and spelling as me. Lo and behold he had been told the same story as me,of how 3 brothers had come over from Ireland, one stayed back there, one went to the south and one went west. So far enough back we are related.

[Frank McGrath]

My wife and I are amatuer geneologists. We have been researching the McGraths and the Moores. We have found that I am a 5th gen Washingtonian (DC), On my father's side and a 5th gen Carroll Countian, On my mother's side. We were doing so much research in Carroll county, that we decided to move here. Oh, yes, Carroll County Maryland.
I guess that the Carroll People write much down. We are stuck At just before the Revolutionary war. Could be Mohr, Could be Moor, or Moore. I will just keep looking. Got to be a Scot in there somewhere.