Civilian Mess Jackets

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Minus all the fantasy military gubbins (and the silly cummerbund) this is pretty much what SSR should look like. (The top of the cummerbund, by the way, comes to where the top of his kilt should be.)

Actually, white military mess jackets are easy to find (ebay, criagslist, Marlow-White) and once the military bits are removed, they become civilian mess jackets. Marlow-White (www.marlowwhite.com) will provide mess jackets with or without military trim. Military sizes run tight, so you may want to speak with them before placing your order.

[CMcG]

MoR's aptly named Sweltering Summer Rig (SSR) is an important consideration for the kilted in warmer climes. Even in Canada, with our reputation for cold temperatures, it gets hot. Today is a sweltering 42 Celsius (107.6 Fahrenheit), with the Humidex!

I'm not, however, sold on the white mess jacket. This is not an intrinsic judgement but more of a practical issue. A black mess jacket worn with an open-back vest or a dirk belt is considerably cooler than other formal kilt jackets. But it would also be suitable for non SSR situations...

If one has room in the closet, money to spend, and events where a white mess jacket would be appropriate, then by all means. Otherwise, I'd say a black one is more versatile and yet still forgiving in a good swelter. Especially if it was made in a fine, lighter wool.

Mitchell's of New Zealand makes a mess jacket that would fit the bill:


Even with regular weight, the high-cut style of the mess jacket is what makes it cooler. It does not, perhaps, appeal to everyone but it is practical. I mentioned Robert MacDonald's thoughts on the subject in an earlier post but I think it is worth quoting him at length with pictures, in regards to the correct waist height of a mess jacket:

Apparently this is ideal


And he says his own is too long. Note that he appears to have neither waistcoat, cummerbund, nor belt under his jacket...


"I must add that I've never encountered a dishonest tailor or one who didn't take pride in his work, but I was unable to convince a certain well-respected tailor that the Eton Jacket (which you see at the top of this article) he had made for me was about 3" to long to wear with a kilt and I wear it to this day as a lesson to myself.
Compare the jacket in the centre with the Black Watch mess jacket on the left. The centre-back of the BW jacket is no lower than the 'swell' of the backside and the hem at the sides is about equal with the top of the hip-bone (not the navel, as I said in my website). THAT is the effect you should be looking for!
Incidentally, the style of Mess Jacket as worn by the Black Watch is very interesting - note that the buttons (and the button-holes as well, although you can't see them in this photo) go all the way up to the 'notch' in the lapel. This is a vesitgal 'echo' of the origin of the mess jacket - a 'fatigue jacket' with the buttons undone and the 'stand' collar folded down.
A version of this jacket done in black Melton cloth with silver buttons would be a spectacular alternative to the mass-produced Charlie jackets that everyone else wears!"

[Cygnus]

MoR's aptly named Sweltering Summer Rig (SSR) is an important consideration for the kilted in warmer climes. Even in Canada, with our reputation for cold temperatures, it gets hot. Today is a sweltering 42 Celsius (107.6 Fahrenheit), with the Humidex!

I'm not, however, sold on the white mess jacket. This is not an intrinsic judgement but more of a practical issue. A black mess jacket worn with an open-back vest or a dirk belt is considerably cooler than other formal kilt jackets. But it would also be suitable for non SSR situations...

If one has room in the closet, money to spend, and events where a white mess jacket would be appropriate, then by all means. Otherwise, I'd say a black one is more versatile and yet still forgiving in a good swelter. Especially if it was made in a fine, lighter wool.

All very good points, CMcG.

I would like to say a few words in defense of the white mess jacket and why I think it would be a good choice for many that deal with hotter temperatures.

I would first like to say that a white formal jacket probably isn't the best for a "first purchase" as far as formal wear is considered; as CMcG implied, it is really an secondary jacket. If you do deal with the heat and you want an all-round coat for SSR and year-round black tie, then the darker mess jacket is for you. Given how affordable these white mess jackets are, acquiring one really shouldn't be too much of a challenge for somebody that can also afford a quality kilt.

The black mess jacket, while cooler than many doublets or heavy-weight jackets, really meets its match when an evening event is held, at least in part, out of doors. As I said before, even with the surrounding mountains where I live, the sun can stay up until well after 21:00, and it is light until almost 22:00. Most summer-time events will at least have part of the venue be out of doors (a garden, terrace, etc.), and wearing something dark with the sun still beating down gets awfully hot awfully fast. The white jacket reflects the light and keeps you much cooler in sunshine.

If an event will be held indoors, I'd wear the usual dark jacket.

I don't currently own a formal kilt jacket (I've always rented in the past or worn a tuxedo with trousers), but I am now convinced that my first formal kilt jacket will be a regulation doublet in velvet. It's hotter, but with air conditioning will be just fine for year-round events. And if there is a summer event that would justify donning my kilt, I will likely spring for a very affordable white mess jacket.

That way I get the best of both worlds - a cool and classy jacket for the summer, and a warm and unique doublet for all other seasons.

Now to start saving for that velvet doublet...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

There is no reason for not wearing a black mess jacket in the summer except, as Cygnus has pointed out, if you are standing around in the sun, the black jacket will be appreciably warmer than the white.

White or black (as seen above) SSR looks every bit as sharp as an ordinary formal kilt jacket. Generally, if wearing miniature medals with mess dress it is a good idea to place the innermost medals (those closest to the center of the body) on the lapel. Otherwise, as can be seen in this photo, the medals become a bit "scrunched" and are lost on the jacket.

Other than the placement of the medals, the look scores a solid A; shortening the sleeves about 3/4 of an inch, and adding tartan, diced, or argyle hose would bring it up to an A+.

[MacLowlife]

If you poke around long enough, you can find Saxon dinner jackets made in all sorts of summerweight fabrics, even including seersucker and madras, especially if you don't mind examples from the 1950s or 60s. Nubby white or cream silk is fairly common once you get past the rental stuff. I was thinking earlier of a tropical wool 3 button navy blazer I have with just a touch of slubbing woven into the fabric- thinking how it would be a great candidate for the Argyll chop if it weren't so handy as a sportcoat. It has 2 vents and even has silver buttons already. Best of all, though, is its weight.

There is a thread's worth of controversy over whether or not midnight blue/ navy blue/ any other blue is sufficiently formal for any given occasion. I vote yes, provided everything else matches the event.

Were I lucky enough to find a white linen jacket, or even a sufficiently constructed white cotton drill one, I would strongly consider it for summer/ tropical kilted evening wear, except that I have never had occasion to attend such an event. Maybe having the outfit would be occasion enough. My dress kilt is on the peg until September or after unless I have a kilted funeral, in which case the linen comes out.

My linen jacket is rusty brown and it goes with anything that isn't red, but I will be the first to admit that it is strictly daywear.

The sad thing is that sometimes tailors and manufacturers lose sight of why we want linen and light colors in the first place. They produce garments that are cool only in appearance. Too much interlining, etc, defeats the purpose.

A gentleman I often copy has a red silk sportcoat he chopped off into an Argyll. He wears it to our local society's (men only) black tie Annual Meeting, which is usually in November, but when we are in front of the ladies, he reverts to a black jacket. I have bought a red blazer with his idea in mind, but then I have my notorious red PC. One CAN have too many kilt jackets.

Every time I wear my cummerbund "slits down" my straight razor falls out.

Oh, and since nobody else has said it out loud, what about Bertie and Cannes? There, it is out at last...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Oh, and since nobody else has said it out loud, what about Bertie and Cannes? There, it is out at last...

Indeed, and what of novelty ties?

[MacLowlife]

Musical, illuminated, or Hanna-Barbera/ Disney?

Or, for the hat trick, consider a Taz bow, with matching waistcoat that growls when you move and his eyes light up.




Fine, as long as the red eyes don't clash with my tartan.

[Alan H]

Just a comment...

No, I deleted it when I realized which sub-forum this is on. Carry on. Just don't ask me to clear your dishes or I might react in a manner which you may not like.

[saxandpipes]

...

Bands? Yes, I agree whole-heartedly that red bow ties are proper to wear if one is in a dance band... It may just be a local thing, but virtually all of the caterers these days also put red bow ties on their staff...

Can't speak for the other branches of service, but that's what the Army does.

"Staff"... now, now. Steady on there. Not all musicians are a casually brought-in bunch of untrained misfits. Your wee dig was subtle, but not well considered. I for one, am never "staff". I think many of my friends and colleagues would also haul you up on this Mr Rathdown, including some of my best friends, a saxophone professor at University and Head of Woodwind studies, as well as her husband, a (now retired) Squadron Leader, ex-director of the Central Band of the Royal New Zealand Airforce.

Regards!

Michael (full-time professional musician)
MMus, BMus(Hons, first class), BMus, ATCL

[MacLowlife]

"Staff"... now, now. Steady on there. Not all musicians are a casually brought-in bunch of untrained misfits. Your wee dig was subtle, but not well considered. I for one, am never "staff". I think many of my friends and colleagues would also haul you up on this Mr Rathdown, including some of my best friends, a saxophone professor at University and Head of Woodwind studies, as well as her husband, a (now retired) Squadron Leader, ex-director of the Central Band of the Royal New Zealand Airforce.

Regards!

Michael (full-time professional musician)
MMus, BMus(Hons, first class), BMus, ATCL

I am pretty sure the staff MoR was referring to are the CATERING STAFF, or maybe I read it wrong. I have never been in a dance band, but I have been catering staff more than once. Now that you mention it, I was probably a part of a casually brought in bunch of untrained misfits some of those times. I have also waited tables.

I am pretty sure that most if us will never attend a formal event in hot weather where the waitstaff/caterers are kilted, so much of this talk may be less literal than it appears. But I stand by my advice and general desire not to look like I am working at an event where I am a guest.