Ghillie brogues, yes or no?

[Thunderbolt]

It's so nice to see plaids used! We need to do this more in the States! (In cooler weather of course!)

Looks like they've even got a tongue.

I think you're seeing the wooden tree on the inside.

T.

[Bugbear]

Oh good, you don't have to wear pointy shoes... I think part of the problem is that I have narrow feet to begin with, and the wingtip shoes didn't look right. The rest of the brogueing and all of that wasn't an issue.

[bikeolounger]

Can't get 'em in my size (47 extra extra wide) for a price I can justify for a pair of shoes I'd wear once or twice a year. Haven't seen them advertised in my size ever.

My grandmother (who was born in Germany) taught that "you put your best money in your every day shoes." I'm willing to buy high-quality shoes if I'm going to wear them a lot, but for shoes I'll rarely wear? Forget it.

[navysqueaker]

wish i could afford them. for formal occasions i think they look better, but for just going to the pub shitkickers (steel toed boots) work too. . .

[Phil]

Not all buckle shoes are created equal.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/a...&pictureid=546

On the other hand, we call the shoes you're referring to "Mary Janes" simply because they are very similar to what little girls wear/wore.

As a shoemaker, I think they look silly or odd because they violate a number of aesthetic principles...not the least is having a big honking buckle right over the ball of the foot--the area of the foot that must bend and flex, and deeply. I've never worn a pair but I suspect they cannot be all that comfortable.

They are actually quite comfortable - more so than ghillie brogues which I find leave grooves around my legs where the laces were or if you don't tie them tight enough they slip down and you trip over them.

Here's a picture guaranteed to incense all the "Mary-Jane" police who cry out for tolerance on all other aspects of kilt-wearing -



To re-iterate something I have said before, these were the dress shoes to be worn with the kilt. Here are a couple of pictures you will have seen before -





Ghillie brogues along with white hose only started to appear in the 1970's - before that you wore "Mary-Janes" with your kilt to a dressy occasion and ordinary brogues (wing-tips) during the day. Of course nothing in fashion stands still but we of an older generation prefer to retain the style which others have now discarded. No doubt similar arguments will rage in 20 years' time about the merits of white hose etc.

[David Dalglish]

Ghillie Brogues are great with a PC. outfit, I would not wear then any other time.

[DWFII]

They are actually quite comfortable - more so than ghillie brogues which I find leave grooves around my legs where the laces were or if you don't tie them tight enough they slip down and you trip over them.

Here's a picture guaranteed to incense all the "Mary-Jane" police who cry out for tolerance on all other aspects of kilt-wearing -

Here are a couple of pictures you will have seen before -

This second photo/illustration shows a shoe that is similar in style and spirit to the shoes that would have been worn throughout the 18th and early 19th centuries. Even at Culloden (if shoes were worn at all).

They are not, however...adamantly not...the same as Mary Janes or the shoes depicted in your first two photos. They are not even, in a technical sense, brogues.

That said, while I may be surprised that you find Mary Janes comfortable, as I said before I have never tried a pair on. One of the first rules that a shoemaker learns is that you have to fit the customer's head before you can fit their feet. From this shoemaker's POV they may seem aesthetically or technically orphaned, but if they fit your head...and your feet...go for it. I would not deny that they are traditional kilt accessories.

But if you took a poll on Mary Janes, I'd definitely vote thumbs down on this one (I did not vote in this poll). That's just my personal opinion though.

[Phil]

They are not, however...adamantly not...the same as Mary Janes or the shoes depicted in your first two photos. They are not even, in a technical sense, brogues.

They were posted to give two examples of dress shoes worn with the kilt. The pictures are artists impressions and don't show any detailing on the shoes so whether or not they are brogues I can't tell. What they all do have in common, however, is buckles, whether they are slip-on type like your penny-loafers or strap and buckle they are a traditional type of men's dress shoe in common usage before the advent of ghillie brogues. And they are comfortable, I can assure you. Very much like an old-fashioned "Jesus" sandal is comfortable. And, contrary to what you say that they have "a big honking buckle right over the ball of the foot" the buckle is actually forward of where the shoe bends when worn which is the open part between the strap and the buckle. I do feel there is an element of sexual stereotyping when it comes to shoes and calling buckle brogues "Mary Janes" and inferring they are only worn by little girls is really no different from calling a kilt a "skirt". At one time wearing sandals and/or powder blue jeans was supposed to advertise to the world that you were gay. And how ridiculous is that? Both are long established items of male attire and to infer anything otherwise says a great deal more about ones own personal hang-ups than those of the wearer.

[Cavebear58]

Not for me. I'll post elsewhere about the (lack of good) accessories market.
Cheers, Graham.

[Bugbear]

I thought the buckle on the "mary janes" was up on the instep nearer to the ankle... But I can't look at the pictures. For some reason, I thought the main difference between those and other buckle shoes is that there isn't a tongue or piece of leather over the instep area. Guess the ghillie brogues don't have the tongue either...

Although, I seem to remember the "Quaker" and "Pilgrem" shoes being depicted as having the instep covered, but with the buckle in the same area.

I remember the depictions of the pipers on the short bread tins usually having on the "mary janes," as well as, some kind of doublet and so on...

Just saying what I have to go by...