A STARZ Original Series From Executive Producer Ronald D. Moore: Outlander

[Jock Scot]

Rob was a typo, Ron. The "b" and "n" are next to one another.

Secondly, I'm not being heavy. I'm stating what I honestly perceived.

Thirdly, thank you for clearing that up.

Sigh, sigh and sigh again.

Bren I am sorry that you have perceived Ron's comments as you did. I am afraid that we see Ron's "visitor" scenario all the time in Scotland and I can only imagine what its like in Edinburgh! It does make one more than tad cynical.

That is why I and others spend countless hours trying to explain how it is here in Scotland and why, I and others spend even more countless hours trying to explain that there are more acceptable ways to wear the kilt, etc, etc, in Scotland and possibly elsewhere. Many of those of what many here regard as the "old school" have taken a back seat in trying to explain the reasons, and how the kilt is worn in Scotland (elsewhere) to best advantage. As Ron has ably described some Scots do get wearing the kilt oh so wrong too and the likely reasons. OK we can argue that anyone who wants to can wear the kilt and attire how they like and there is no arguement about that from, I think , any of us. . However, if you want to do it somewhere near right then listen to those that know. Its the same with anything in life, views differ incuding with books , films and TV series.

The problem I have in particular, is international sensitivities and understandings of a common language. I cannot say what I want to say without stirring up a fire! I really cant. So it takes me and no doubt others a huge amount of time wording and phrasing a post to comply with international sensitivities. What Ron has said, contains no anti American, or anti anyone sentiments. He is describing a situation though, pretty accurately, a train of events regularly seen and heard in Scotland and the conclusions drawn are bound to embrace the world. His views from where I sit are broad brush, but you of course have read his words very differently. I really wish I could say what I am wanting to say in my posts, because it would save a huge amount of "beating about the bush", which almost always, I find, leads to further mis-understandings. Even now, it seems however hard I try, I inadvertantly tread over the line and people take umbridge where no unbridge was meant. Sadly it seems that is the way of international internet forums I am afraid. Ron as a newcomer here, has a bit to learn about all this, so how about cutting him some slack? Hope this helps.

[Bareknees1]

Very well stated, Jock. The beauty of the internet, social media, etc, is the opportunity to "meet" and share common interests, engage spirited discussions with individuals with whom we may never actually share a pint. The downside is the lack of direct interaction, the loss of nuance, the read of the tone, wink of the eye, etc, that allows us to better appreciate whether we are on the receiving end of a gentle nudge in the ribs or a sgian in the back. A little slack goes a long way, and tempered opinionating is always well received.

[KiltedKnome]

Hello....when things digress this way, it never ends up good. We are an international forum .... people have different views and different ways of expressing them. Sometimes we use words that strike a very negative chord in a reader. So, we misunderstand each other. Fine. Let's move on and get back on topic.

I was curious about your statement that the book, Mr. Abbott, would appeal to a middle-aged American woman. I know a number of women in this category who like the books, and a number who don't. There are also a number of men who read the books, and a number who don't find them interesting at all. It all boils down to personal preferences. Thank goodness people have different likes and dislikes -- it would be a very boring world if we were all the same! (No one would wear kilts, probably....which would really be sad.)

I did some research, though, and it appears that the book series has been translated into 24 languages and has a world-wide distribution. So obviously the author is doing something right, if the appeal of the books crosses continents, languages and gender. Whether Diana Gabaldon and the publishers are "raking in the pennies" is immaterial. She makes a living as an author. If she did not make any money, she would not be able to spend the time writing the books and the publishers would move on to other authors.

As to the reference to “Brigadoonery”, once again, I emphasize that the Outlander series is fiction. As with all fiction, it is fantasy. Some of it is historically correct, some of it is not. I don't read fiction for historical facts. I sometimes read about an event in fiction, and then go look it up to find out the "real facts." That does not change my enjoyment of the book. I ran into that type of scenario in one of Diana Gabaldon's books, and left a comment on her website asking about it. I actually got an answer from the author, who explained why she had done it. It made sense, what she said, and I thanked her.

I looked at the link that you suggested as a movie you were looking forward to, and my thought was “okay, interesting, but not at the top of my list and if this is a movie you are looking forward to, then your tastes are different than mine” [But I would not use the word “drivel” to describe it.]

To Mr. Terry1948 -- your recollection of how the author responded to questions about how her science background translated into novel writing was interesting. She did talk a bit about that Friday evening during the question and answer period.

[TheOfficialBren]

Bareknees, plus one. That was much more eloquently stated than I could have done and is exactly what I meant.

Jock, no offence is taken since Ron clarified what he meant. No feelings hurt or any of that. Thank you for your well written response.

Now back to "Outlander" and sorry for the derail.

[WillowEstate]

Well said, Jock. Since I joined the forum last year, I've always appreciated your well thought out contributions, always informative and never offensive or belittling of anyone.

Where it comes to the arts, beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder and this would certainly apply to literature. Some of my English scholar friends berate me for my lack of appreciation of Shakespeare but they do so in a civilized manner. And that's just a difference of opinion among British citizens.

Inspired by this thread, I did checkout a couple of the Outlander books in my local library. Not really my style and I didn't finish them but I can see they would appeal to many others. And being fairly well travelled, I can imagine that there could well be a difference in perception across international borders, even English speaking ones.

It is very true that Britain, the USA and Australia are indeed countries separated by a common language!

[Farmer Jones]

This talk of a "common language" is quite interesting. In different countries words are interpreted differently and have different emotive weights. Something said with a dry British humourous undertone, while amusing to a person inculturated with that understanding, can be insulting to person from another country, who understands the words differently, or who is unable to sense the undertone of humour.

[Ron Abbott]

Oh boy.......I never meant to stir up any trouble!

To those why may think I was being anti-American, I most certainly did not intend to be! By putting in the smiley I thought you'd understand that it was tongue in cheek.

Back in the early 1980s, I spent my summer holidays working for Stobo in J&R Glen in The Lawnmarket and then also worked for Duncan MacRae, another bagpipe firm, which was also in The Lawnmarket. Believe me, I saw and heard some rather unusual people (is the sufficiently pc?) from all over!

One was rather unusual (me being polite again) was the Scots-Egyptian, The 'Reverand' Cameron who used to play the bagpipes near the Mound, allegedly for charity. He used to wear the Cameron of Erracht and a church minister's top with a saltire on it. If you haven't come across this chap before, there is plenty accessible via google about his coloutful background.

Then there were the Americans (as well as others) who would tell me that their ancestors had been one of the pilgrim fathers (or similar), yet somehow had also been killed at Culloden. They didn't seem to have spent any time looking at the impossibly factor regarding dates!

Then there were those that would wear their 'clan plaid'.....which usually consisted of the kilt in that 'plaid', a tartan tie in it, a tartan tammy in it, hose flashes in it, as well as a clan belt buckle, clan kiltpin, clan cap badge etc. etc. etc. They couldn't understand why the locals sometimes looked at them with a smirk on the face!

Anyway, I am going off at tangents. This thread is about the Outlander series. Sorry for hijacking it.
But at the same time, I'm not apologising for saying that I thought the two books (and that 's all it was) were drivel. I genuinely believe that as I do that it's just more brigadoonery. Oh for sure, there'll no doubt be more tourists coming spending good money in Scotland to go and look at the various locations where the series is filmed, so I suppose there's a at least one good side to the story!

[ASinclair]

<snip> This thread is about the Outlander series. Sorry for hijacking it.
But at the same time, I'm not apologising for saying that I thought the two books (and that 's all it was) were drivel. <snip>

I Goggled drivel to make sure it meant what I thought it meant, and look what I found --

http://www.goodreads.com/genres/literary-drivel

[KentuckyCeltophile]

This show sounds great. I love period movies and books. Historical inaccuracies are going to happen unfortunately. Movies, like theater, operate on a budget. Sometimes costume designers get by with what they can in order to stay within budget. Let's face it. Kilts can be pretty pricey if they were all tanked up...I can't imagine. Anyway, looks like a fun book to delve into. Thanks for the heads up on this. I had never heard about it before.
KC

[room2ndfloor]

"Then there were the Americans (as well as others) who would tell me that their ancestors had been one of the pilgrim fathers (or similar), yet somehow had also been killed at Culloden. They didn't seem to have spent any time looking at the impossibly factor regarding dates!"

What's so impossible about that? I can trace back to the Pilgrim Fathers (from East Anglia in England), twelve generations on my father's side; and to soldiers named Campbell (who married and had children before getting killed) at Culloden, seven generations back on my mother's side.

The truth can be stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make some kind of sense.