Clan & Regimental Tartans.

[James]

A bit back I caused a slight furore by quoting one Lady Bowman, interestingly in today's TImes [14.7.05] there is what I think should be seen as a reasonable and considered response. For whilst preserving the integrity of the named clan and family, and of course regimental tartans: it opens up kilt wearing for those not so entitled.

My personal view as a clansman is to agree in respect of the clan/family and regimental tartans: but to suggest that the kilt can be worn by anyone-anywhere.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

A Kilt For Bush?

Sir, Lady Bowman [letter July 6] albeit born a Grant of Moneymusk is not quite correct, is not quite correct. Anyone may wear a kilt, but no one who is not so entitled should wear the kilt of a specific clan, family or regimental tartan. There are non specific tartans such as Caledonia or Jacobite which anyone may wear, and a modern development is a plain black kilt for ‘black tie ‘ wear.

As to where one may wear a kilt, the late Major Percy Hope Johnstone of Annandale, Chief of the Johnstones, a border clan, used to quite his father: ‘The only people who should wear a kilt south of Perth are military bandsmen, comic singers and whores’; on the other hand Lord Borthwick Chief of another Borders clan, wore a kilt of brown dog’s-tooth check. Sir Iain Moncrieffe of that Ilk, Chief of Moncrieffe a Highland clan, defined the southern limit of wearing a kilt as two miles south of where he was at the time. Nowadays a kilt can be correctly worn at the Royal Garden Party at Holyrood Palace, and for evening weaer in the South of England. The range is even wider at American Highland Games, where I have worn mine, dangerously among the cacti of Arizona.

On Lady Bowman’s last point, one of the Mackintosh chieftains is also be ancestral marriage Chief of the American Creek Nation, and I have seen him wearing simultaneously a kilt of Macintosh tartan and his feather headdress. For President Bush all is possible. Hail to the Chief.

From Hugh Peskett [Consultant Editor Scotland. Burke’s Peerage and Barontage.]

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James

[Archangel]

<snip>

On Lady Bowman’s last point, one of the Mackintosh chieftains is also be ancestral marriage Chief of the American Creek Nation, and I have seen him wearing simultaneously a kilt of Macintosh tartan and his feather headdress. For President Bush all is possible. Hail to the Chief.

From Hugh Peskett [Consultant Editor Scotland. Burke’s Peerage and Barontage.]

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James

MacKintosh gathering with Creek chief pictured on page 120 of Highland Clans and Tartans, unfortunately not as described.

[macwilkin]

I have seen a McIntosh at the Tulsa, Oklahoma and Ft. Smith Arkansas Highland Games named Chinnubie McIntosh, who wears traditional Creek dress with his kilt -- he is the son of "Dode" McIntosh, once the Principal Chief of th Creek Nation (and I believe the individual picture in "Highland Clans & Tartans"), as well as one of the designers of the Tulsa District Tartan:

http://www.tulsascots.com/district.html


I've also seen a fellow at the St. Louis games dressed in a combination of Osage & Highland "kit".

Cheers,

Todd

[mkmound]

. . . Nowadays a kilt can be correctly worn at the Royal Garden Party at Holyrood Palace . . .

From Hugh Peskett [Consultant Editor Scotland. Burke’s Peerage and Barontage.]

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James

Our own Hamish, if I remember correctly, has worn his to a Royal Garden Party -- Buckingham Palace? (And a casual kilt, at that!) :smile:

Mark

[Archangel]

I have seen a McIntosh at the Tulsa, Oklahoma and Ft. Smith Arkansas Highland Games named Chinnubie McIntosh, who wears traditional Creek dress with his kilt -- he is the son of "Dode" McIntosh, once the Principal Chief of th Creek Nation (and I believe the individual picture in "Highland Clans & Tartans"), as well as one of the designers of the Tulsa District Tartan:

http://www.tulsascots.com/district.html


I've also seen a fellow at the St. Louis games dressed in a combination of Osage & Highland "kit".

Cheers,

Todd

are you familiar with this artists work: http://www.paramountpress.com/fromscottoam.html?
War dance is one of my favourite pieces and I've just realized I've been putting off buying it for too long. I'm rich now.

[Jerry]

Although I tend to stay with tartans to which my family has a connection, I made some interesting discoveries while I was checking out my family to discover which tartan I could wear. When I first decided to buy a kilt, I was told by a kilt vendor at a Celtic festival that my family was not only an accepted sept of clan Macneil, it was also just a spelling variation of the clan name. I decided to check this out for myself, because I didn't wish to offend anyone. After all, the vendor might have just been trying to sell me a kilt. After a bit of research, I found the email address of Ian Roderick Macneil, the current Clan Macneil cheif. I sent him a message asking if my family was indeed a sept and if I could wear the Macneil tartan. His reply surprised me. First of all, my family is a sept, andI could wear the tartan. But then he added that I did not have to have a connection to the clan to wear the tartan, and that anyone could join the clan as long as they supported the ideals and the cheif of the clan. I got a similar answer from The House of Gordon, which is my middle name and the surname of my mother's family. Several other clans had similar responses. So it seems that the clans themselves for the most part don't care who wears their tartans.

[macwilkin]

are you familiar with this artists work: http://www.paramountpress.com/fromscottoam.html?
War dance is one of my favourite pieces and I've just realized I've been putting off buying it for too long. I'm rich now.

Yep -- I would like to have "Major Grant's Piper" hanging over the mantle someday! :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Todd

[jfellrath]

So it seems that the clans themselves for the most part don't care who wears their tartans.

I get that impression, too, Jerry. I think it's much like various Native American tribes not caring if colleges use their tribal names as mascots - in many cases, they're honored that someone wants to call attention to their bravery and manliness in such competition.

I have a friend who went to Miami University (Ohio), and apparently the chief of the Miami nation would come up to Oxford each year and at halftime, perform a ceremony that would give the Miami name back to the school. And this was a team that was called the "Redskins" at the time. The PC hounds at the school have since changed the mascot, but they're obviously still Miami U.

Duck... I'm getting off topic... ;)

[mkmound]

are you familiar with this artists work: http://www.paramountpress.com/fromscottoam.html?
War dance is one of my favourite pieces and I've just realized I've been putting off buying it for too long. I'm rich now.

Thanks for point out his work -- I hadn't seen it before now. Very nice!

Mark

[Hamish]

Our own Hamish, if I remember correctly, has worn his to a Royal Garden Party -- Buckingham Palace? (And a casual kilt, at that!) :smile:

Mark

Alas, not quite true, Mark. I have indeed been to a Royal Garden Party at Buckingham Palace (I have been invited to three of them, actually!), but I did not wear the kilt to any of them. It was formal Morning Dress with a top hat each time. Those occasions were back in the 1980s - before I was wearing the kilt for anything other than Scottish Country and Highland Dancing!

I did, however, wear a white Utilikilt when paying an informal visit to Buckingham Palace in the searing heat of summer 2003:



I would NEVER wear a casual kilt (nor a casual anything else) to a formal event such as one of Her Majesty's garden parties!!