The Whole Nine Yards

[Shay]

And I believe the story behind the phrase, "The whole nine yards" is from a dirty joke. I found the idea here:

http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/nineyards.htm

And a couple other places that I now forget how I found!

What have you heard as the origin?

[chasem]

I had heard it as a kilt made from the whole nine yards - which of course many of us know that one as inaccurate.

The one I've heard that has been presented as the most legit, and I've seen as most likely, was a belt of ammunition for a machine gun (I don't recall which exactly) was 9 yards long. To "give someone the whole nine yards" was to unload a whole belt of ammo on them.


Edit: I just went back and read the link you posted. They mention the ammo belt thing. My apologies for not reading it beforehand

[macwilkin]

I posted this in the Blacksmith thread in "Kilts in the Media", but I'll post it here as well:

There are many theories about the origin of the phrase. For every source that says that the phrase comes from the Second World War (nine yards referring to the ammunition belts in aircraft), another one disproves it.

Wordorigins.org makes this statement -- I like them because they actually note their sources:

The Whole Nine Yards

This phrase is of unknown origin and is the subject of some debate. At issue is to what does nine yards refer. The meaning is clearly the entirety or everything, but nine yards is not a significant measure of anything. All we know about its origin is that the phrase cannot be traced any earlier than the mid-1960s and that it is American in origin.

Perhaps the most common assumption is that it is from American football, but the canonical distance in that game is ten, not nine, yards. Also common are explanations based on length of cloth, but there is no standard length for a bolt of cloth (which measure anywhere from twenty to twenty-five yards), and nine yards is not a significant measure for any type of garment (a man's suit uses about seven yards of a thirty-inch bolt, double folded; sarongs, saris, kilts, kimonos, bridal veils and any number of other garments have been suggested, none with any accompanying evidence).

The explanation that is currently circulating around the internet most frequently is that nine yards was the length of a belt of machine gun ammunition carried by a WWII fighter plane. To "give it the whole nine yards" was to expend all of one's ammo. This explanation is almost certainly false. For one thing, the type of fighter varies with the teller, sometimes Spitfires in the Battle of Britain, sometimes varying American fighters in the South Pacific. Another reason to doubt it is that ammunition is either counted in rounds or by weight. It is never measured in length of a belt. Chapman points to an origin in the Army and Air Force, which fits in with the post-WWII-era origin, but is otherwise unexplained. **emphasis mine -- TW

Newspaper columnist and language commentator James Kirkpatrick favors the explanation that it is a reference to the capacity of ready-mix concrete trucks (Fine Print: Reflections on the Writing Art). Safire also plumps for this explanation. This explanation, however, is somewhat questionable as the August 1964 issue of Ready Mixed Concrete magazine gives an average concrete mixer as having a capacity of four and a half cubic yards "just a few years ago" and an average of under six and a half in 1962. A 1988 source (Cecil Adams in More of the Straight Dope), states current mixers range from seven to ten cubic yards, with a rough average of nine. While current averages may be on target, when the phrase arose, the average cement payload was less than four and a half cubic yards. So the cement truck explanation is probably incorrect.

Chapman also suggests that it may be related to the British phrase dressed to the nines, where presumably nine has some numerological significance. He also suggests that yard may refer to the slang usage of that word to mean one hundred dollars.

Other explanations include:

The amount of dirt in a large burial plot;
The number of properties, or yards, in a standard city block in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Levittown, (pick your city);
The amount of cloth used in a burial shroud;
The capacity of coal trucks; and
The number of yards on a square rigged sailing ship (yards being the horizontal poles that hold the sails), even though it was not uncommon for such ships to have eighteen yards.
One final possibility is that it does derive from American football, but was originally intended to be ironic. To go "the whole nine yards" was to fall just short of the goal.

In summary, this is just one of those idiomatic phrases that defy explanation. This may not be satisfying, but it is not uncommon in English.

An additional source for this entry was Cecil Adams; More of the Straight Dope; Ballantine; 1988; ISBN 0-345-35145-2.

-- http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorw.htm

Cheers,

Todd

[Shay]

I found the Cecil Adams one!

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_252.html
Whew- that's some crazy stories. Oddly, nary a mention of the kilt idea.

[Southern Breeze]

The ammo belt story is the one I've heard the most. However,the cloth belts for my Browning M1917A1 are only 4 yards long.They're reproductions though and I don't know how long originals are.

[Shay]

Really? 'Cause I had always heard it was for a kilt.

I offer this as an example:

GUS AND THE KILT (c) 1991 Lolly Foy
Now Angus was a happy man for soon he would be wed
He'd found a brisk and bonnie lass to take him to his bed
But happier still his mother was that he had found a wife
For truth be told she'd often feared t'be stuck with him for life!

In honour of the grand affair their wedding it would be
She set about to weave a kilt the finest ever seen
The night before the wedding when the kilt was finally done
She called young Angus over and she tried it on her son

She wound the kilt about him and she wound and wound wound!
But when she'd finished winding it was still eight yards too long
"Oh never fear, me bonnie boy, we'll simply cut it off
And to your blushing bride we will give the extra cloth"

Now Angus was so pleased you know his heart it swelled with pride
He felt that he must rush right out to show it to his bride
It was raining so he grabbed a cloak to shield him on the moor
And in his haste to be away, his kilt slammed in the door!

Now Angus was in such a rush to show off for his bride
He never really noticed that he'd left his kilt behind
He knocked upon her door, cryin' "Let me in I pray,
I've something that you've got to see before our wedding day"

Well Brigit let him in you know but says, "You canna stay.
For I must have my beauty sleep before our wedding day!"
"I'll only be a moment love, but it's so grand, my dear,
You've got t'see what I've got hidin' under here!"

Now when the cloak was set aside, and Angus stood quite bare
We must admit, she was impressed, and tried hard not to stare
"My love, I'll ne'er see finer, though far and wide I'd roam!"
"Oh, lass," He cried, "That's nothin'! I've eight more yards at home!"

[Moosehead]

My understanding is from WW1, not WW2, and comes from the ammo belts of ground-based machine-gunners, specifically the water cooled Browning .303s.

[macwilkin]

My understanding is from WW1, not WW2, and comes from the ammo belts of ground-based machine-gunners, specifically the water cooled Browning .303s.

Any sources? As you can see, theories abound to the origin, but nothing with any substance from a research perspective.

I'm from Missouri, so you'll have to "Show Me"! :mrgreen:

Todd

[Southern Breeze]

Thr problem with ammo belts is that they are sized by the number of rounds they hold. The ones I have are reproductions,4 yards in length and hold 150 rounds. The standerd issue belt for the 1917 Browning holds 250 rounds. It really is a confusing topic at times.

[Big Paul]

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_b...ages/1369.html







In Reply to: Re: The (New) Whole 9 Yards posted by Barney on February 29, 2000

The phrase "Give em' the whole nine yards" comes from an infantry unit in the South Pacific, while trying to defeat the enemy. Squads with the 30 caliber, water cooled machine gun, used belt feed ammunition that came in 27 foot lengths. Hence when confronted with well entrenched, or over-whelming odds, the expression came to be known when they fired the whole length of ammunition belt at the enemy.