Can't sew - have to buy - how to compare?

[Scottish Chi]

After visiting numerous websites and reading most of the forum posts I’m still hesitant with making my selection for a quality traditional kilt. I could use the collective knowledge and experience of all you folks and asking for help at this forum seems to be the most logical. Although I may buy a less expensive kilt for general knock around purpose I also want a traditional wool, 16oz, 8yd kilt in the Ferguson tartan – “Tank” for special occasions etc. It will be my “once in a lifetime” investment. I would like to have the best I can afford (still considering budget). I don’t want to spend dollars needlessly yet I don’t want to sacrifice proper quality and construction. There appears to be many recommended kiltmakers on the forum and $500.00 seems to be the general consensus as a low end cost for a quality kilt. Since I have no way to compare kilts from different kiltmakers first hand any help will be greatly appreciated.

1. For the same weight, yds, and tartan hand stitched I find the costs range from a high end at about $720 + shipping to a more affordable $404 including shipping(with X Marks discount). Can there be a $300+ difference in quality in the final product from reputable stores? What?
2. Is there a noticeable or appreciable difference in fabric from Lochcarron vs House of Edgar? At Scotweb there is about an $80 difference in kilt cost between them. Would the cost be justified?
3. On a 36” waist with a tartan sett of about 13 cm (5 in) would a pleat reveal of 2 cm (3/4 in) with a depth of 10 cm (4 in) be reasonable to expect for an 8 yd kilt? (24+ pleats?) Would more be better? How many? Deeper pleat? How much?
4. Does anyone have experience with comparing the Scotweb store kilts? “Balmoral traditional” vs luxury by Manley Richardson. Considering they would be using the same tartan from the same mills there is about a $140 difference.
5. Cost has me leaning toward Scotweb especially in light of the discount and the free shipping. But how does the quality compare to the more expensive kiltmakers?
6. I have read about duty charges from kilts received from outside the US that I would like to avoid. Anyone have experience with these charges on kilts coming from Scotweb? It seems to have to do with the shipping carrier.
7. Suggestions of questions to ask the kiltmaker?

I realize I have a lot of questions but this seems the best place to learn. Thanks for taking time to read this long post. Hope you can help.

Cheers! Bill

[Kilted KT]

1. For the same weight, yds, and tartan hand stitched I find the costs range from a high end at about $720 + shipping to a more affordable $404 including shipping(with X Marks discount). Can there be a $300+ difference in quality in the final product from reputable stores? What?

Honestly, you can find that much of a difference, but most of the people who notice those differences are usually kiltmakers. One of the big differences is if the kilt is hand sewn or machine stiched. The difference in quality here will have to addressed by someone else, as I don't have a fully hand-swen tank yet.

5. Cost has me leaning toward Scotweb especially in light of the discount and the free shipping. But how does the quality compare to the more expensive kiltmakers?

Don't forget that while it may have free shipping, you may have to pay import taxes or other such fees.
for a similar price, check out http://scottishkilts.net/ Some of their tartan kilts cost less than the ones on scotweb.

6. I have read about duty charges from kilts received from outside the US that I would like to avoid. Anyone have experience with these charges on kilts coming from Scotweb? It seems to have to do with the shipping carrier.

see above...

I realize I have a lot of questions but this seems the best place to learn. Thanks for taking time to read this long post. Hope you can help.

Cheers! Bill

you are definitly in the right place to learn about kilts...I am confident you will not come up with a question that someone here can't answer.

[cavscout]

Here's a thread along the same lines

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...light=balmoral

[davedove]

Unless you're dead set on getting the kilt made in Scotland, don't forget the American kiltmakers. The prices are comparable and you avoid customs charges.

Alexis Malcolm makes a great kilt. I have one from her and another on order.

http://www.alexismalcolmkilts.bigstep.com/

[Colin]

Although I may buy a less expensive kilt for general knock around purpose I also want a traditional wool, 16oz, 8yd kilt in the Ferguson tartan – “Tank” for special occasions etc. It will be my “once in a lifetime” investment. I would like to have the best I can afford (still considering budget). I don’t want to spend dollars needlessly yet I don’t want to sacrifice proper quality and construction. There appears to be many recommended kiltmakers on the forum and $500.00 seems to be the general consensus as a low end cost for a quality kilt. Since I have no way to compare kilts from different kiltmakers first hand any help will be greatly appreciated.

There are numerous sources to find a good quality traditional kilt. Besides Kiltstore.net (which you have obviously found). also check out www.scottishkilts.net , www.tartanweb.org , and even the premium line at www.usakilts.com

Personally I am glad that I got my “once in a lifetime” investment from Scottishkilts.net in Scotland.

1. For the same weight, yds, and tartan hand stitched I find the costs range from a high end at about $720 + shipping to a more affordable $404 including shipping(with X Marks discount). Can there be a $300+ difference in quality in the final product from reputable stores? What?

I have only found the difference in each tartan a big deal at kiltstore. While other suppliers may charge more for harder to find tartans, Kiltstore seems to base the price on each mill and tartan. This was a big turn off for me when I was ready to order.

2. Is there a noticeable or appreciable difference in fabric from Lochcarron vs House of Edgar? At Scotweb there is about an $80 difference in kilt cost between them. Would the cost be justified?

Every mill can be different. Just like the weigh tof the tartan can affect the size of the sett, the mill can make for a variation in tartan. When I ordered the Ancient Watson from Scottishkilts, I had the option of Lochcarron or Marton mills. I was able to see a sample book for each, and the Lochcarron weave was a smaller sett so I went with the Marton mills.

3. On a 36” waist with a tartan sett of about 13 cm (5 in) would a pleat reveal of 2 cm (3/4 in) with a depth of 10 cm (4 in) be reasonable to expect for an 8 yd kilt? (24+ pleats?) Would more be better? How many? Deeper pleat? How much?

You should ask the company making you kilt this, as they will have the best answer.

4. Does anyone have experience with comparing the Scotweb store kilts? “Balmoral traditional” vs luxury by Manley Richardson. Considering they would be using the same tartan from the same mills there is about a $140 difference.

I can't comment, but will say all the reviews I have seen on this forum of the Balmoral have been great.

5. Cost has me leaning toward Scotweb especially in light of the discount and the free shipping. But how does the quality compare to the more expensive kiltmakers?

some better deals do exist out there even with the discount.

6. I have read about duty charges from kilts received from outside the US that I would like to avoid. Anyone have experience with these charges on kilts coming from Scotweb? It seems to have to do with the shipping carrier.

Wait the extra time and have your order sent by the free shipping. DO NOT use FedEx as their will charge delivery fee and by acting as the broker, they will charge a brutal rate for customs.

7. Suggestions of questions to ask the kiltmaker?

Anything you would ask here.....ask them as well.

I realize I have a lot of questions but this seems the best place to learn. Thanks for taking time to read this long post. Hope you can help.

Cheers! Bill

We all started exactly where you are (exact Hamish, he may have come out of the womb in a kilt) so ask away. On eday you will be answering the questions others have prior to ordering their first kilt.

[Jerry]

Definitely check out our American kilt makers. Ron can tell you about Kathy Lare, Rocky at USA kilts now offers traditional wool kilts and Matt Newsome has a wide range of kilts at very reasonable prices. I have to confess, I'm planning to make a pilgrimage to the Smokey Mountains a week from Saturday with income tax refund in hand to visit Matt. I'll get him or one of his employees to do the measurements and check out his tartan books.

[beerbecue]

I will chime in and echo the sentiments already stated. That is, use a kiltmaker here in the states. More and more, I am hesitant to purchase items from overseas... not for the quality, but for the sheer hassle, time and expense of shipping.

There are a score of excellent kiltmakers here, many of whom have a presence on this forum.

Off the top of my head - there is Matt (for the box pleat), Barb T, Alexis Malcolm, Kathy Lare, Linda Clifford... You cant forget Rocky..... J. Higgins, The Kiltmakers Apprentice... and many more.... check out the kiltmaker directory Hank set up to get an idea of how many there are in the U.S. and N. America.

This list is by no means complete, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, omissions are not intentional

Anyway, my nearly worthless advice is just to buy here at home. You can get the same quality as one made in Scotland, maybe better... It all depends upon who makes your kilt, and not necessarily the store it comes from.

Th

[Barb T]

3. On a 36” waist with a tartan sett of about 13 cm (5 in) would a pleat reveal of 2 cm (3/4 in) with a depth of 10 cm (4 in) be reasonable to expect for an 8 yd kilt? (24+ pleats?) Would more be better? How many? Deeper pleat? How much?

A tartan sett of 5" is pretty small and unlikely on any tartan above 11 oz weight. Most 16 oz tartans have setts in the neighborhoof of 7-10".

OK, now for the more complicated part. Because tartan kilts are pleated either to the stripe or the sett, the depth of the pleats is governed entirely by the size of the sett. You can't just decide arbitrarily what the pleat depth will be. For example, an 8" sett pleated to the stripe would make a pleat every 8", which would give a pleat depth of about 3.5" if there were a reveal of 1", because (8"-1")/2 = 3.5". If the kilt were pleated to the sett, the pleats would be slightly deeper because it's slightly more than 1 sett between pleats.

The number of pleats is also not arbitrary but, rather, a function of how much cloth you have for pleating (which depends on how much you choose to use for the whole kilt and how big a person you are) _and_ how big the set is. If you have an 8" sett and 200" available for the back of the kilt, you'll get 27 pleats if pleated to the stripe and probably 25 if you pleat to the sett. If the sett is 10", you'll have only 20 pleats if you pleat to the stripe.

So, you just specify an 8-yard kilt and trust the kiltmaker. They'll look at your measurements and decide whether you really need a 9-yard kilt for the tartan you've chosen or whether 8 will do. After the yardage is chosen, and the style of pleating, there is literally no choice in the number of pleats or their depth - it's govered by the tartan you've chosen.
Barb

[Scottish Chi]

I am beginning to have a much better understanding of kilts and an appreciation of the value of an accomplished kiltmaker.

It appears that I do have some leeway in the final cost and still purchase a high quality kilt without having to break the bank. I still plan on considering some of the companies in Scotland but from the forums I see that there are quite a few highly recommended traditional kiltmakers here in the US that I should talk to. I have already set up a file of the website for those that were recommended. As mentioned a bonus for buying in the US is not having to be concerned with customs.

I recognize all the folks that have replied from the many other informative posts on all the forums and appreciate the time you all take to help out a novice. Thanks.

Since I don't have to order right away I have the luxury of talking to many of these folks before I make my decision. Fortunately the yardage and weight as well as the tartan (Ferguson) has already been decided. That makes some of the selection easier.

I was hoping BarbT with her knowledge of kilt construction would respond. Your explanation was just what I needed to feel more comfortable about the pleating. I am probably off on the measurement of the set from the original post. That will be cleared up as I contact the different kiltmakers. I was concerned about spending the money for an 8yd 16 oz traditional kilt and getting 20 pleats with a 1 inch reveal and a 2 inch depth. Even with my limited knowledge this would have limited appeal for drape and swing. Now I know more about what to ask for before I "lays me money down".
Looking forward to the day when I can help others in the same knowledgable and gracious manner that you folks do.
Bill

[Jerry]

I will chime in and echo the sentiments already stated. That is, use a kiltmaker here in the states. More and more, I am hesitant to purchase items from overseas... not for the quality, but for the sheer hassle, time and expense of shipping.

There are a score of excellent kiltmakers here, many of whom have a presence on this forum.

Off the top of my head - there is Matt (for the box pleat), Barb T, Alexis Malcolm, Kathy Lare, Linda Clifford... You cant forget Rocky..... J. Higgins, The Kiltmakers Apprentice... and many more.... check out the kiltmaker directory Hank set up to get an idea of how many there are in the U.S. and N. America.

This list is by no means complete, and I hope I didn't offend anyone, omissions are not intentional

Anyway, my nearly worthless advice is just to buy here at home. You can get the same quality as one made in Scotland, maybe better... It all depends upon who makes your kilt, and not necessarily the store it comes from.

Th

Don't forget, Matt makes more than just box pleated kilts. He also offers knife pleated kilts in various weights including heavyweight traditionals.