The American Language

[Nick]

I thought the membership would be interested in this after reading a breif tangent on a thread in the main kilt forum. Since there is considerable representation from both the United States and United Kingdom, as well as representation from other English speaking areas and even from non-English speaking countries, I think we can get a wide array of viewpoints.

The question is simple. Is the English that Americans speak on a day to day basis "English"? Or is it another language, different and distinct from what is spoken in the UK?

In the early 20th century, HL Mencken wrote "The American Language," in which he made the case that yes, American English had indeed become a seperate language. He later softened his stance to say that American English was on its way towards becoming a seperate language.

In the other thread someone mentioned Noah Webster. Yes, he did make a very concious effort to distance American English from British English. This was done mainly through spelling (it was a Dictionary, after all), hence colour=color, theatre=theater, mediaeval=medieval, etc. But do spelling differences make another language?

There are many examples of differences from either side of the Pond. But my opinion is that the two are not different, and to say I speak "American" is to say I speak a different dialect of English.

Any other thoughts on this?

I just got done with a History of the English Language course, so this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately.

[ronstew]

First, we're are going to need to explore the definition of language.

[mrpharr]

I thought the membership would be interested in this after reading a breif tangent on a thread in the main kilt forum. Since there is considerable representation from both the United States and United Kingdom, as well as representation from other English speaking areas and even from non-English speaking countries, I think we can get a wide array of viewpoints.

The question is simple. Is the English that Americans speak on a day to day basis "English"? Or is it another language, different and distinct from what is spoken in the UK?

In the early 20th century, HL Mencken wrote "The American Language," in which he made the case that yes, American English had indeed become a seperate language. He later softened his stance to say that American English was on its way towards becoming a seperate language.

In the other thread someone mentioned Noah Webster. Yes, he did make a very concious effort to distance American English from British English. This was done mainly through spelling (it was a Dictionary, after all), hence colour=color, theatre=theater, mediaeval=medieval, etc. But do spelling differences make another language?

There are many examples of differences from either side of the Pond. But my opinion is that the two are not different, and to say I speak "American" is to say I speak a different dialect of English.

Any other thoughts on this?

I just got done with a History of the English Language course, so this is something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately.

Is it a difference in Vernacular English? very few words are all that different until you start using "slang." And if it is a different language, how do i as an America understand people in many other English speaking countries, heavy accents aside.

BTW, the book i studied from was A History of the English Language by Albert C. Baugh and Thomas Cable. A very informative class to say the least.

[auld argonian]

Great PBS series: The Story of English...

...made a case for AE and UKE as seperate dialects of the same language.

Also pointed out that he spoken English of Shakespeare's day had many similarities to what we consider Southern USA dialect in terms of pronunciation and inflection.

Must be a book or a website about it somewhere.

Also Robert McNeal (Canadian cum USA American) did a series on Do You Speak American? that was limited to regions of the USA...great stuff.

Best

AA

[Chris Webb]

I think we are confusing 'language' with 'dialect' ... We all speak English, if we didn't you wouldn't understand what you've just read.

Chris Webb

[chasem]

different dialect/slang? yes.

different language? certainly not.

[GlassMan]

Great PBS series: The Story of English...

...made a case for AE and UKE as seperate dialects of the same language.

Also pointed out that he spoken English of Shakespeare's day had many similarities to what we consider Southern USA dialect in terms of pronunciation and inflection.

Must be a book or a website about it somewhere.

Also Robert McNeal (Canadian cum USA American) did a series on Do You Speak American? that was limited to regions of the USA...great stuff.

Best

AA

I remember reading excerpts from a book discussing the similarities between Elizabethan English and the US Southern Dialect. They author was positing that it was actually part of an astounding linguistic conservatism in which aspects of Elizabethan English have simply persisted in the American South while being long since left behind in other parts of the English speaking world. Among the examples given was the use of the double negative. Apparently, using double negatives was a particular favorite of Queen Elizabeth I herself!

Personally, I am of the position that we all speak variants of the English language. Which of those variants should be considered the base tongue is a matter open to discussion. British English would seem to hold a claim as the ancestral home of our mother tongue. But if you base it on simple numbers of speakers, it would actually be the variant of English favored in India!

In a bit of an aside, I feel that Webster did us a disfavor by changing the spellings in American English. The UK English spellings seem far more natural to me, and always have, much to the consternation of my elementary school teachers.

[Pour1Malt]

ai dinnae ken whit yur a' oan aboot...

ai canne uptak hauf o' whit ya 'mericans arr bletherin maist the time...

ya hae me scunnert, confeesed, an jus hamelt trachelt....

cannae ya a' jus dae yur haverin in Scots? :rolleyes:

[porrick]

ai dinnae ken whit yur a' oan aboot...

ai canne uptak hauf o' whit ya 'mericans arr bletherin maist the time...

ya hae me scunnert, confeesed, an jus hamelt trachelt....

cannae ya a' jus dae yur haverin in Scots? :rolleyes:

Hehe, I'll not get into the discussion based on the above.

Just want to let you know I enjoy your use of local tongue, and that you use a number of old Nordic words we still use (or variations thereof) in Norwegian today.

[An t-Ileach]

I remember reading excerpts from a book discussing the similarities between Elizabethan English and the US Southern Dialect. They author was positing that it was actually part of an astounding linguistic conservatism in which aspects of Elizabethan English have simply persisted in the American South while being long since left behind in other parts of the English speaking world. Among the examples given was the use of the double negative. Apparently, using double negatives was a particular favorite of Queen Elizabeth I herself!...

I must have read the same book. There are clear survivals in AE from Tudor times, especially noticeable in past participles such as "gotten" (BE uses "got") and (strong preferred to weak - weakening the pps is said to be a 'progressive' (is that the right opposite to 'conservative'?) trend) "dove" (BE - "dived"). I think the spelling system is less important, although I don't understand the rationale behind the AE dropping of 'u' (it's used everywhere else in the English-speaking world - except by chavs who don't seem to be able to spell consistently in any sort of system). And a modern Webster's dictionary gives the BE forms as well anyway.