Kilt Discussion Panel

[Zardoz]

Ok, I mentioned a Sci-Fi Convention ( www.apollocon.org )that I'm going to this weekend in the Off Topic section before, But here's an interesting development; They are going to have a Panel Discussion on kilts! And of course I have wrangled my way into it!

Here's the topic description;

Heinlein showed Lazarus Long in kilts and the Dorsai wore 'em with pride. Kilts (and similar not-skirts-that-guys-wear) are part of many of our cultural heritages & they're common enough in spec fic and fandom. What keeps kilts out of the mainstream culture?

So help me out, I'm armed with all that I've learned here, I even printed up some info sheets to hand around, but give me your thoughts on "What keeps kilts out of the mainstream culture?"

PS... BTW I'm leaving Friday morning, I'll be offline after that!

[Southern Breeze]

Here's one thought- The majority of us grew up with pants and shorts being the norm. Kilts, being diffrent, are outside our norm and so we feel insecure in wearing them.

[Zardoz]

as I think about it, the problem isn't what's keeping kilts out of mainstream culture, as much as what's keeping mens legs in mainstream clothing?

[Panache]

Zardoz,

Here are my three cents

(1) Our culture has pretty rigidly defined ideas about what is masculine and what is feminine. Men who are perceived as effeminate tend to be harassed in our country (sometimes to the point where they are killed). Men in our country wear pants. Women wear skirts. A man in a skirt is therefore effeminate (and yes kilts are a subcategory of skirts.) Kilts are a tough sell to most guys for this reason.

(2) How many X-Markers have heard the “Where are your bagpipes?” Those people out there that recognize kilts tend to see them entirely as a part of Scottish culture. Men who don’t have that in their heritage or background are about as likely to want a kilt as they would a sarong.

(3) Getting a pair of pants is easy. You walk into the store, find your size, buy it, and walk out. If the average guy did suddenly get a bee in his bonnet one morning to go buy a kilt how easy is it for him to do so? Once he finds someplace that will get him a kilt then he has to go through a bit of sticker shock.
Kilt + Accessories = down payment on a car. When I have been asked by people “what made you decide kilt?“ I reply that I have wanted a kilt for a very long time but when I looked into it and found out the price I was discouraged. Until now. The potential kilt wearer out there today can go to Stillwater Kilts spend about $200 and have a kilt, sporran, flashes, hose, and a belt for $200 (and get it pretty darned quickly too.) For $200 a fellow might take a chance on something different. For $1500 a fellow might think that he could get several suits that he knows he will wear instead of a costume he might not.

Cheers

[haukehaien]

I would definitely agree with Panache's points, especially the second one. I know that it was much easier when I started wearing kilts because most of the people who knew me already knew that I played the bagpipes. (I always answer "Where are your bagpipes?" with "At home. Why? Is there a ceilidh?") I think I've gotten a lot fewer comments because of that fact, that at church or at work I was already "That guy who plays the bagpipes."

And I have no desire to wear a sarong.

[Blu (Ontario)]

"What keeps kilts out of the mainstream culture?"

1. Fear... frear of standing out from the rest of the male population,

2. Disapproval... of wives and girlfriends,

3. Dress Codes... invoked by companies and institutions to make men conform and not stand out from the rest of the male population,

4. Cost... they are not yet available in Wal*Mart for 29.95,

5. Insecurity... many men are severely concerned that a kilt will feminize them,

6. Ignorance... many don't understand why a man would want to,

7. Coolness.. they are not worn by entertainers in pop culture,

8. Culture... family background may discourage it through item 5.

9. Disinterest... many men just simply don't care,

10. Religion... may influence some,

11. Race... some may view kilts as the domain of white anglo populations,

12. History... many see the kilt as a strictly historical costume.

13. Politics... of clothing - remants of generations of male chauvinism.

I've listed just a few reasons... many of these can intertwine in various permutations resulting in a general rejection of the kilt. The sudden appearence of kilts in pop music might have a short term popularizing effect.

I remain a pessimist and suggest that the general acceptance of kilts in mainstream culture will be verrrry slow.

blu

[Zardoz]

Panache said; "I have wanted a kilt for a very long time but when I looked into it and found out the price I was discouraged. Until now. The potential kilt wearer out there today can go to Stillwater Kilts spend about $200 and have a kilt, sporran, flashes, hose, and a belt for $200 (and get it pretty darned quickly too.) For $200 a fellow might take a chance on something different. For $1500 a fellow might think that he could get several suits that he knows he will wear instead of a costume he might not."

That was basically my story too, I put together a list of online resources to had out with a few lower cost ways to get started.

[An t-Ileach]

I think the cost business can be helped along nowadays with the availability of Pakistani-made kilts (such as sell for around £50), or other cheaper kilts than the 16oz Strome.

I'd add to the list that there's an impression that you have to be Scots to be able to wear a kilt.

Now the Dorsai - Dickson's warriors for hire - are living up to the Scots of the Exile as war-like Alpha Males par excellence. Surely that's something that can be talked up into the Braveheart, Rob Roy genre: real men wear kilts.

And didn't kilts appear in Edgar Rice Burroughs' Martian/Barsoom series (didn't Captain John Carter - the original, not RAH's - wear kilts when he was wearing more than a loin cloth, that is?)?

[Zardoz]

Yeah, the Dorsai are a great example for the Sci-Fi crowd. I love the Barsoom books, but I think most Martian warriors only wore enough harness to hold up their long and short swords and radium pistols!

[Rex_Tremende]

Homophobia and misogyny, though Panache and Blu put it much more diplomatically - I just don't know why that's never put on the table as is (I'm feeling blunt today). Blu's list seems pretty complete to me.

R.