True tartan colors? Confusion...

[pbpersson]

Oh this is wonderful! An entire section just on tartans! I never realized there were SO MANY tartans!!

I just can't believe it. If I someday have lots and lots of money I can wear wonderfully colorful kilts!

Anyway, confusion has set in. You guys are sending me links to different web sites to look at kilts and....well....

Let's say that I am looking at these tartans and trying to figure out what I want to WEAR, wouldn't you expect the pictures to be somewhat accurate??

Here are two web sites that show the Chicago tartan:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/web/...rtan=By+Tartan
http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tart...tartan_id=1195

Now....is that the same tartan and the picture of one is just not accurate? They both say they are the University of Chicago so I'm really confused.

In like fashion, here are two examples of the Illinois tartan:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/web/...rtan=By+Tartan
http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tart...tartan_id=1171

Now, both of these say they are Illinois and St. Andrews Society Corporate

In each case the tartan sounds like the same thing but when I view them from these different web sites they appear to be totally different.

Help me out, I'm confused!! :confused:

Phoenix Phil

[macwilkin]

Both the University of Chicago and Illinois St. Andrew's Society tartans are "corporate" tartans, designed for individual organizations, such as a Scottish society or a university. I haven't heard of the Illinois State Legislature officially adopting the Illinois tartan as "the" state tartan, but that wouldn't stop someone from wearing it.

Our own Scotus, who resides in Illinois, and who is active in Scottish circles, may know the status of the tartan.

Cheers,

Todd

[Sylvain]

In like fashion, here are two examples of the Illinois tartan:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/web/...rtan=By+Tartan
http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tart...tartan_id=1171

Now, both of these say they are Illinois and St. Andrews Society Corporate

In each case the tartan sounds like the same thing but when I view them from these different web sites they appear to be totally different.

Yes. Is the basic colour grey or blue?
Are the lines red or brown.

[billmcc]

The only way you will be able to see the exact colors of a tartan is to order a sample swatch of the tartan. On-line swatchs are almost always off color.

[Riverkilt]

Bill is right.

My computer monitors at home and work show different shades of tartan. Best bet is to see it in person. Either at a highland games at a kiltmaker's booth in their swatch book, or request a swatch.

The difference between what you see on your monitor and what the swatch looks like can be amazing.

If you trust your kiltmaker you can also ask them. Like, I really liked USAKilts Prince of Wales tartan. Looks black to me on all the monitors I can use. Asked Rocky and, surprise, its actually dark green. Which is cool too.

Even the Scottish Tartan's Authority thread count of tartans - if you're a member and can figure out the color codes - doesn't tell you the shade of green or red etc.

Swatch, swatch, swatch.

Ron

[pbpersson]

Yes. Is the basic colour grey or blue?
Are the lines red or brown.

So....then you ARE saying that if I find a tartan called "Infotech University in Cleveland ABC" and I get it from two different places, they are totally different tartans with totally different colors?

To me that just doesn't seem right at all....there should be some standards. If the "Infotech University in Cleveland ABC" people designed and approved the tartan there should be a specification listing the colors used and the pattern.

I really don't understand this entire tartan world... :confused:

[Southern Breeze]

This may yield enlightenment or confusion.

Setts (tartan patterns)
One of the most distinctive features of the authentic Scottish kilt is the tartan patterns (called setts) which such kilts exhibit. Many of these patterns have come to be associated with Scottish clans. The process by which this came about is the subject of the history of the kilt.

For purposes of description, it is first of all necessary to point out that these patterns, in addition to other characteristics, are always arranged horizontally and vertically, never set at a slant or diagonal. In addition, the setts are registered with the Scottish Tartans Authority which maintains a collection of fabric samples characterized by name and thread count.

The actual sett of a tartan is the minimum number of threads that completely determines the pattern. The pattern itself is then repeated in both the warp and the weft which, with very rare exceptions (mainly in the case of some very few old and rare tartan patterns) are identical. This identity of warp and weft means that the pattern will appear the same if the fabric is rotated through an angle of 90 degrees.

Setts are further characterized by their size which is the number of inches (or centimeters) in one full repeat. The size of a given sett depends not only on the number of threads in the repeat, but also on the weight of the fabric. This is so because the heavier is the fabric weight, the thicker the threads will be and thus the same number of threads of a heavier weight fabric will occupy more space when woven.

The setts are specified by their thread count, which is the sequence of colors and the proportions thereof. As an example, the Wallace tartan has a thread count given as K2 R16 K16 Y2 K16 R16 (K is black, R is red, and Y is yellow). This means that 2 units of black thread will be succeeded by 16 units of red, et cetera, in both the warp and the weft. (Typically, the "units" will be the actual number of threads, but so long as the proportions are maintained, the actual pattern will be the same.)

The colors referred to in the thread count are specified as in heraldry (though it should be noted that tartan patterns are not heraldic). The exact shade which is used is a matter of artistic freedom and will vary from one mill to another as well as from one dye lot to another within the same mill.

Source- Wikipedia.

[pbpersson]

The colors referred to in the thread count are specified as in heraldry (though it should be noted that tartan patterns are not heraldic). The exact shade which is used is a matter of artistic freedom and will vary from one mill to another as well as from one dye lot to another within the same mill.

Source- Wikipedia.

Yes, that does make sense. I didn't understand what a tartan specification was actually specifying. That means I had better not just specify a tartan by name because I will have no idea what I am getting. The tartan name is only the BEGINNING of the specification. That's very good to know.

[davedove]

there should be a specification listing the colors used and the pattern.

It's my understanding that thread counts are set for each tartan, although the whole count could be doubled, tripled, etc. to make a larger sett.

The colors are recorded, but not shades. For instance, one tartan may have blue and red in its colors, but how many shades of these colors are there? And I won't even get into weathered and ancient colors. But they're all the same tartan.

It's not an exact thing and can be very confusing. Some of the members of this board are very knowledgable about tartan, but they've been studying it for some time.

I get the impression that the central registration of tartans is a pretty recent thing as well, so standardization is also new.

[Southern Breeze]

Matt Newsomes site Albanach. org is an excellant place to start educating ones self on tartan. Remember, there are no dumb questions.
http://www.albanach.org/