USA Kilts, a review

[arrogcow]

Ok just got my first USA semi trad (and yes I did say first, to be noted in conjunction with below), in the US Army tartan. Here is my review.

First the technical specs (with comparisons):

The apron is the least tapered of my tartans at 19” at the top and 22” at the bottom (tank 20/23.5, 5 yd casual 18/ 24", SWK 17/21)

Sett of 4.25” (tank 4.5”, casual 7”, SWK 3.5”)

Pleats 24 depth 1 3/8” (tank 22 - 5.5”, casual 22 - 3/12”, SWK 36 - 2”)

Straps are rock solid, and compare with the casual, are not as good as my tank and so much better than my SWK that I can’t even begin to express that.

Lining - there is none and all the others have something, on the other hand with the PV I don’t think it is necessary.

It does have a reverse pleat on the right side as do the tank and SWK.

The good:

Workmanship is fantastic, all the pleats are perfectly lined up and tapered well. Stitching is visible, but perfectly even, and only noticeable very close (like 3” away). Fits perfectly (that extra ½” I added on Monday helped).

The bad:

The only ding I have for Rocky is that the pieces of tartan used to hold the buckle don’t match the tartan underneath. Frankly the top two are under a belt so can’t be seen. However the lower right buckle would have matched if you had just turned the piece upside down. Again not a big deal, someone would have had to be paying way too close attention to my hips to catch it.

OK, not Rocky’s fault, but the selvedge sucks. It looks like the kilt was hemmed inside out. It looks better on the inside (still not great), but since tartan has an inside and an outside, the fabric maker seems to have done it backward. Other than that the fabric is perfect (I was a little afraid that it was going to be in brighter colors like Sport Kilts’ Army version), though a little lighter than expected.

The questionable:

The pleats are really shallow. Now some of this is my fault, I decided that if they were going to be shallow anyway I’d go ahead and get it to stripe like I wanted. Pleated to sett only would have added about ½”. However, once I did the math, I figured out that if about 1 yard more of tartan were used, I could have had appx 20 pleats in the 4” range, with there being 2 repeats concealed in the pleat instead of 1. This option did not occur to me until it was too late, but I would have paid for it (and for the record the length used in my kilt was 4 yards 19 inches).


All things considered, I’m seriously considering another USAK (solid saffron), but I have issues with the selvedge. All in all though, the workmanship; is excellent.

Adam

[turpin]

That's a good, objective review, arrogcow. I really appreciate it. So often kilt reviews gush with superlatives, making it hard to decide among all the fine options we have.

[Doc]

A fine review. Not only do these help the kilt addicted but also helps the kilt maker.

[Riverkilt]

If it helps. My USA Kilts Army semi-trad that arrived today and is pleated to the sett has pleat depths of 1 3/4 to 2"

Ron

[RockyR]

Good review, Arrogcow. Thanks! I would likethe chance to address a few minor points if I could.

First the technical specs (with comparisons):

The apron is the least tapered of my tartans at 19” at the top and 22” at the bottom (tank 20/23.5, 5 yd casual 18/ 24", SWK 17/21)

Sett of 4.25” (tank 4.5”, casual 7”, SWK 3.5”)

Pleats 24 depth 1 3/8” (tank 22 - 5.5”, casual 22 - 3/12”, SWK 36 - 2”)

The pleat depth and the sett size have more to do wih the size of the sett than anything. The front apron should be 1/2 of the wearers' waist or a tiny bit more, so that should be roughly the same for all the tartan kilts.

OK, not Rocky’s fault, but the selvedge sucks. It looks like the kilt was hemmed inside out. It looks better on the inside (still not great), but since tartan has an inside and an outside, the fabric maker seems to have done it backward. Other than that the fabric is perfect (I was a little afraid that it was going to be in brighter colors like Sport Kilts’ Army version), though a little lighter than expected.

Unfortunately, that's the "tuck selvedge" that the mill puts on PV. It's better than the frayed selvedge, but not as nice as when they do it for wool. I think this has more to do with the fact that their machine isn't really designed to weave PV on a tuck selvedge loom. And yes, as you pointed out, I had to use that side as that's the side that's coated with Teflon. I'm glad you liked the colors though.

The questionable:

The pleats are really shallow. Now some of this is my fault, I decided that if they were going to be shallow anyway I’d go ahead and get it to stripe like I wanted. Pleated to sett only would have added about ½”. However, once I did the math, I figured out that if about 1 yard more of tartan were used, I could have had appx 20 pleats in the 4” range, with there being 2 repeats concealed in the pleat instead of 1. This option did not occur to me until it was too late, but I would have paid for it (and for the record the length used in my kilt was 4 yards 19 inches).

Now you understand why I explained about the sett size before I made it for you. Actually, if we did "double depth" pleats for you, it would have added 108" (or 3 yards) to the kilt. 24 pleats X 4.5" sett = 108". 24 Pleats X 9" sett (double depth) = 216".

One more thing to remember when counting out the fabric used on kilts is the "waste" material, the belt loop material, the fringe material, the buckle material, etc.

All things considered, I’m seriously considering another USAK (solid saffron), but I have issues with the selvedge.

As a warning... The Saffron we have in PV has a frayed selvedge. That IS HOW the bottom of the kilt WILL BE unless you ask us to hem it when you order (additional charges for labor would apply). If you call before you order, I can prety much always tell you what kind of selvedge the tartan has before you order it to make sure you understand what's coming.

Again... thanks for the review. I hope I didn't sound "defensive" about things... I just tried to address the points that were brought up.

[arrogcow]

When figuring out the double pleat, I was only calculating 20 pleats (a few less to save material, but I have noticed that based on how I wanted it pleated that the pleats really couldn't be any wider) and my measurement of 4.25" for the sett so I got 170" needed or about 1.5 yards more doing the math again just now (I only got a like 40" before, but I think I made a mistake). Part of my calculation was also based on my 5 yd only geing 4 yd 19 inches as well, with a 7" repeat, but I failed to account for the fact that it does not have the reverse pleat thus freeing up more tartan for the back as well. Still all in all I would have considered paying extra for that as an option.

And I'm not complaining about the depth of my pleats. You made it very clear that they were going to be shallow. All things considered, I am very happy that I got it pleated the way I wanted rather than have the extra 1/2" depth.

The apron was not a complaint, just facts. I think the taper is fine, just pointing out that different kiltmakers do things slightly differently.

As for the selvedge it would be less of a problem if it were at least even, but it wanders up and down slightly. However it that is how it is, then that is how it is.

I don't think you sounded defensive, not should you. This is a quality product, you do great work. I just try and be as honest as I can when reviewing a new kilt (rather than just blowing smoke) so others in the future can know exactly what they are getting. A saffron and the Welsh National are both very much in my sights (though probably not for 9 months or so, gotta buy other stuff as well).

Good job.

Adam

[Mountainman]

Very informative review Arrogcow, thanks.

[Fearnest]

Good review - I'm looking forward to seeing my Army P/V in the not-too-distant future, too!

[cacunn]

My 2 cents - Both are right and this is a the type of dialog that will make this forum great. The more the kilt makers understand what the wears are looking at/for the better their products will be. The more the kilt makers educated their customers the better consumers we will be. I read arrogcow's review as not critical, but as a an honest observation on a new kilt. Rocky's response was good information to help the consumer to understand the difficulties and unique characteristics of the product.

I'm lucky I can take a nice drive into PA's Amish country visit USA Kilts and finger the kilts most XMTS' can't get to USA Kilts and I can't make it to most of the other kilt makers. This makes honest reviews and discussion by kilt makers important. At the cost of kilts the more I know the better.

Now what I really want is to win the lottery, buy and RV and visit every kilt maker in North America. Once, I have done this twice then I go to Europe and beyond.