Help!: Jacketly Impared

[DamnthePants]

Please help ! I have the kilt, I have the shirt, I have the hose, I have the shoes, I have the belt.. what I don’t have is the jacket!

Now, I know where to get them, what confuses me, is all the different types of ways the different places asks to measure you. I have never gotten a tailored anything. I have never even really worn a formal jacket ( I’m 23) The only thing I know for sure is my waist size and shoe size.

Some sites I’ve seen list there sizes in S M L XL, and so on. Others ask for a static number, what this number refers to I don’t know. Others ask for a slew of measurements.

Would it be possible for someone with more experience in this to give me a simple way to find what I need to know when buying/renting* a jacket? I would hate to spend a lot of money on something I want, but get it in a size to small or too large.

Thanks

* I have searched locally, and I do not think I have found a place in Portland Maine, or near by where I could rent a PC or Argyle.

[Irish in Tacoma]

Men's jackets typically are sized with a number followed by a letter, ie 46L. This refers to the chest size (46 inches) and the sleeve/body length (Short, Regular, Long).

Any men's clothing department (Sears, JC Penny, Men's Wearhouse, etc) should be able to size you. You might even find a cute salesgirl to wrap her arms (and the tapemeasure) around you.

As for where to rent a PC in Maine, you're on your own.

[gilmore]

You might want to be careful about ordering a jacket from the UK. They seem to run at least a size smaller there than in the US.

[Phil]

You might want to be careful about ordering a jacket from the UK. They seem to run at least a size smaller there than in the US.

Are American inches smaller than British ones? I know American gallons measure differently but I am sure inches are the same - 2.54 centimetres. If not adjust accordingly. Measure around your chest immediately under your oxters(armpits) and if you are going for a Prince Charlie with a waistcoat (vest) put one on and measure on top of it. This may be the reason gilmore measured a size smaller. This measuring form will probably give you a better idea -

[M. A. C. Newsome]

You might want to be careful about ordering a jacket from the UK. They seem to run at least a size smaller there than in the US.

I've been told that in the UK and Europe, the fashion is for a more fitted look, which many Americans would find much tighter than they are accustomed to. This is why some UK made jackets seem "too small" to us.

But this is not universally true. We (at the Scottish Tartans Museum gift shop) currently use three different suppliers for kilt jackets of various types, all made in Scotland. If you count all of the jacket suppliers I've dealt with over the past 10 years or so, that would up the number to 5.

Of that number, only one in my experience has made their jackets smaller than what I would consider normal in the American market. So when I order from that one company, I know to order a size larger than I would typically want.

All the other companies seem to make their jackets to the same specs as most American sportscoats I am used to. I've never had a problem with getting a proper fit.

To answer the original question about sizing, here is my opinion. If you are looking for a nice kilt jacket and the only size options you are being given are S, M, L, XL, etc., I'd stay away. There is just no way that you are going to be guaranteed a good jacket fit from such general measurements. In a t-shirt, sure. But not in a jacket.

More than likely, you will be asked for a sportscoat size, such as 42R or 46L, etc. Irish in Tacoma described what this means, above. The quick and easy way to get your measurement, if you don't already know, is to have someone measure you around the broadest part of your chest, under your armpit. This will give you the number part of the size. You'll want to be generous. If your chest measures 44", for example, you'll want to up that number to a 46" so that it will fit comfortably. Otherwise your jacket will have to be painted on!

The S, R, or L part stands for shirt, regular, or long and refers to the sleeve length. You'll need to reference a chart to see what the standard sleeve length for the various chest sizes might be (it's different for a 42 and a 54, for instance). I have such a chart at work, but not with me right now. You'll probably be able to find one on line if you search. In any case, a short fitting will be 1" less than regular, and a long fitting will be 1" more.

For this, you'll just want to measure from the shoulder seam down your arm (with elbow slightly bent) to the cuff.

Most kilt jackets will be offered in standard (even) chest sizes, in S, R, and L fittings.

But what if you don't fit in a "standard" size? What if you really need an odd size, like 43? What if you need XS or XL sleeves? What if one arm is longer than the other? This is where custom tailoring comes into play. When you get a site asking you for lots of different, very specific measurements, they are likely going to be custom tailoring your jacket.

This can get very pricey, and really if this is the route you want to go, I strongly reccomend you finding a tailor near you who can measure you in person, rather than relying upon submitting your measurements on line to a tailor who has never seen you -- unless you really are confident of your measurement.

If someone needs a custom tailored jacket, I ususally reccomend they purchase the jacket in the closest standard size and then have it altered by a tailor local to them. This not only allows you to be measured in person by your tailor, but (given the cost of purchasing a custom tailored jacket from the UK) also ends up being less expensize in the end.

Happy jacket hunting!

Matt

[DamnthePants]

Thanks. It feels better to have it explained to me. I feel much better about getting a jacket now.

Thank you

[gilmore]

By jackets made in the UK being a size or more smaller than those that fit Americans, I was refering to the size in inches, not the S-M-L-XL categorization. This has been my experience, as well as that of my brother, my nephew and quite a few men here on X Marks.

If you can't afford a custom tailored jacket (and few can justify that expense for something worn only a very few times a year, if that), you might locate a tailor or a seamstress in your area to alter a mail order jacket, and then order one a size or so larger, keeping in mind that we are all different, with broader and narrower shoulders, chests and waists, longer and shorter arms and torsoes.

Another alternative is to find a tweed or similar jacket in a thrift store and have it altered to the cut of a kilt jacket. Some of the men here on X Marks have had this done, a couple of guys in the San Francisco Bay area especially. They found a seamstress who does quite good work, judging from the photos they posted.

If you are adept at sewing, or know some one who is, you might try altering a thrift store jacket yourself. Some here, more talented than I, have posted explanations and directions:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=22180

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ghlight=jacket

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ket+conversion

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ket+conversion

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ghlight=jacket

http://www.geocities.com/alanhsails/...lt_jacket.html

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ghlight=jacket

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ket+conversion

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...d=1#post362090

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=28067

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...807#post292807

Another option is to make it from a pattern, such as Simplicity 5029, or this: http://www.folkwear.com/152.html

or if you or some one you know is good at reading 19th century pattern books, this : http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/vict...ages/09_44.htm and http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/vict...ages/09_45.htm

[Nanook]

All the other companies seem to make their jackets to the same specs as most American sportscoats I am used to. I've never had a problem with getting a proper fit.

Is the company (my guess) in Glasgow?

But back to size. British tailoring is more fitted (military) and darted much more around the waist. The American style is to less fitted, shoulders more natural and arm holes a bit lower. Many of the better American tailors like Oxxford, however, can be "as British" any any on Savile Row.

Its, of course, not just he maker but also the design, cut and fabrication standards that define fit. A fused front (glued) jacket won't flow and mold like a fully canvased jacket (where the three layers move). Its more rigid. Throw in larger waistlines to a form fitted (military inspired) design such as an Argyl and you get a possible missed-fit.

[McMurdo]

Well you may have to do a wee bit of traveling to find one but in my experience ordering a jacket from a website is no substitute for going to a reputable shop and trying one on.

I ordered my PC online and ordered it as a 40 short the same size as a jacket from this side of the pond and it was a wee bit tight, luckily for me my brother has a menswear store and thus he has a tailor who was only too happy to rectify the situation.

I have also purchased a Harris Tweed argyle jacket in a 40 short and it fits perfectly, I was in a brick and mortar store for the Harris Tweed. So I think if you really want to be sure you get the correct fit see if you can find a shop near you and get properly fitted.

[Prester John]

Go to a tux shop or men's clothing department of Macy's or some such and get measured properly.

Write it down.

Then, find a good rental company. I've had nothing but stellar service from this vendor:

http://scotyard.com

And I'm not paid to say it. We've rented large groups of complete kilt outfits from them, and have not one complaint or reservation.

Mostly, though, have fun! Life's too short not to.

Oh, I should mention...I'm a 48 short - an impossible size to find. They were terrific.