A trans-Atlantic thing?

**Jock Scot** · 27th February 08, 12:15 AM

In another thread a couple of comments made me wonder if there is a divergance of opinion over what constitutes as formal Kilt attire,between the "old" world and the "new".I think generally speaking most people this side of the Atlantic would say that a black barathea silver buttoned Argyll(type) would be the start of the formal ladder, as formal day wear and the next rung up, so to speak, would be a Prince Charlie coatee.I wonder what any body else thinks? Before the broadsides are fired about traditional fuddy duddies looking down their noses at the modernists of the kilt world and vice versa, then please don't. This is a non judgmental question.

**Howard Clark** · 27th February 08, 05:37 AM

That seems reasonable to me. I dunno that I am ever going to acquire a Prince Charlie. I seldom go to anything that a black Argyll won't suffice for, and for daywear I recently acquired a nice tweed Argyll, so I think I'm set.

We Yanks do tend to see things in a different light though. I'm curious too.

**davedove** · 27th February 08, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

In another thread a couple of comments made me wonder if there is a divergance of opinion over what constitutes as formal Kilt attire,between the "old" world and the "new".I think generally speaking most people this side of the Atlantic would say that a black barathea silver buttoned Argyll(type) would be the start of the formal ladder, as formal day wear and the next rung up, so to speak, would be a Prince Charlie coatee.I wonder what any body else thinks? Before the broadsides are fired about traditional fuddy duddies looking down their noses at the modernists of the kilt world and vice versa, then please don't. This is a non judgmental question.

That tends to be the way I think of it. However, with our increasingly casual society, in some people's eyes, formal means a jacket and tie. I don't think that way, but many do.

**McMurdo** · 27th February 08, 06:15 AM

I'm not sure what it is like in the U.S. however from what I have seen in Canada, if there is an event calling for formal wear you do end up seeing a plethora of Prince Charlie outfits. Recently I was at the RSCDS Tartan Ball, what I noticed was that in a crowd of 300 dancers there was one Montrose Doublet, everyone else including myself were wearing Prince Charlie outfits.

This year I was also lucky enough to go to two Burns suppers, the first with members of this forum and the second to benefit the highland games in the town where my parents live. At the first most were in Black Argyll outfits with silver buttons, and there were a couple Prince Charlies. At the second there were Prince Charlies, Montrose Doublets, Kenmores all the way down to blue business suits.

I would suspect that on this side we are on the whole lax regarding what should and should not be worn to formal events. Personally I will continue to wear the Prince Charlie outfit I wore to the Tartan Ball, and Burns Nights, until I have a Montrose Doublet, then I will have a choice and dress appropriate to the venue.

**McClef** · 27th February 08, 06:39 AM

I don't know that there is such a huge difference.

If most people over here wore a doublet and most people over there wore a PC you could then state that there was. I don't think I have seen any pictures of UK or even European X markers wearing a doublet, apart from Hamish.

My experience is no difference to McMurdo's in fact he has probably seen more doublets in real life than I have!

How about a straw poll - X markers saying what the own as their most formal wear?

I'll start - mine is a PC. I would love to own a Montrose also though!

**sharpdressedscot** · 27th February 08, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by davedove

That tends to be the way I think of it. However, with our increasingly casual society, in some people's eyes, formal means a jacket and tie. I don't think that way, but many do.

I guess it's a change in styles or fashions or whatever.
People are becoming more casual, because it's comfortable.

Trend? Fad?

**KiltedHuntsman** · 27th February 08, 06:53 AM

I have a black Argyl and a Montrose Doublet. The full formal Montrose, with Dirk, soup dippers and Fly Plaid, scares the hell out of people at non Scot events like a Hunt ball. They make polite conversation and slide away... The Argyll and bow tie formal outfit doesn't freak them out as much.

**Phil** · 27th February 08, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by McClef

I don't know that there is such a huge difference.

If most people over here wore a doublet and most people over there wore a PC you could then state that there was. I don't think I have seen any pictures of UK or even European X markers wearing a doublet, apart from Hamish.

My experience is no difference to McMurdo's in fact he has probably seen more doublets in real life than I have!

How about a straw poll - X markers saying what the own as their most formal wear?

I'll start - mine is a PC. I would love to own a Montrose also though!

How did you miss this one then? It's getting a bit tight nowadays!

or this

**davedove** · 27th February 08, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by McClef

How about a straw poll - X markers saying what the own as their most formal wear?

I'll start - mine is a PC. I would love to own a Montrose also though!

I have a Brian Baru jacket that I use for formal wear. I just liked the cut of it a little better.

I would love to own a doublet one day, but I really don't know when I would wear it.