Tartan, 1572

[Alan H]

I am, insane as it seems, considering joining up VERY part-time with a local re-enactors Guild. I picked them because a clan sister is one of the guildmistresses, and they're willing to let the big guy show up once a blue moon to play a Man at Arms. I cannot possibly spare the time to really get seriously involved, so it has to be a "show up when you can" kind of thing.

The setting is a smallish "noble house", Scottish, just discharged from Mary's court, around 1572.

I figure that I ought to be wearing the following...

A doublet, probably high-necked, possibly with a jerkin over the doublet. It could be slashed, but I doubt that a common soldier could afford such stuff, unless the House provided it.

probably NOT a ruffled collar, those had to be upper-class widgets, no everyday jock could deal with maintaining one.

Knee-breeches since I suspect slops are for the gentry... tights under those

a floppy round hat of some sort

soft shoes.

Weapons...possibly a swept-hilt rapier thought that's likely more of a civilian gentry weapon. A sidesword or other light-ish cut-and-thrust weapon, dagger and targe is probably closer to what this guy should carry.

The guildmistress says a kilt is OK. I am having problems with this. A half-kilt, in 1572, just discharged from Mary's court? I can't see it, no rough Highlander would have been anywhere near Mary's court and the half-kilt didn't make an appearance until much later. But then, if the mistress says a kilt is OK then it's OK, right? I dunno.

OK, so where in this assemblage of stuff might I incorporate some tartan? This of course is totally aside from WHICH tartan, I'll find some somewhat-muted green/blue thing on ebay.

Whether this all comes to pass is moot, I have NO time.

[Scotus]

The guildmistress says a kilt is OK. I am having problems with this. A half-kilt, in 1572, just discharged from Mary's court? I can't see it, but then, if the mistress says it's OK then it's OK, right?

The problem with historical reenactments is that so many care nothing for history! No, a kilt is not okay in 1572 just because a "guildmistress" says so, unless you care nothing about history, like so many reenactors.

[Scotus]

Alan H:

I didn't mean to be so harsh in what I wrote a few moments ago. I stand by what I wrote, I just don't stand by the tone. I blame it on too many posts in XMarks about reenactments that don't really seem to care at all about history, only about dressing in kilts at a time when people didn't dress in kilts. I know there are some reenactors who take their hobby very seriously (Jacobite reenactors come to mind), but I know from first hand experience (I was once a member of the SCA) that many reenactors in the medieval and renaissance period could not care one iota about historical accuracy. So, when you asked if it was okay to wear a kilt, when we have no historical evidence that the kilt was worn in 1572, just because your guildmistress said it was okay, I forgot restraint momentarily.

[macwilkin]

See the Border Reiver reenactors in Alex's post, Alan:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/s...30&postcount=4

Todd

[dfmacliam]

I am far from the expert in the historical dress of the days of old... but I believe you could possibly use some advice I was given when I asked about mid 1700's Eastern Woodland Indian attire... research paintings from the era, check out the clothing..being of Mary's Court, I am sure you could possibly find Men at Arms in the paintings.. there are so many on this forum who can get you some heads up..
Scotus is passionate about being historically correct... nothing wrong with that.. I understand his feelings, due to seeing "liberties" taken by some who try to recreate the days of old.. My opinion is this.. make every opportunity to make your persona historically correct.. if you have to fudge a bit.. do so until you can be correct.. I am sure our reenactor types onboard can help with creating the appearances of period correct accessories too..
I wish you luck on your forray.. and I hope you come to enjoy it.. help stamp out the false stereotypes, by portraying the past with facts.. good luck.. and by God.... have fun!

[Woodsheal]

Regarding a blade, Highlanders of that period were already known for their basket-hilted swords (called "Irish" hilts by lowlanders and English, because all things Gaelic were "Irish"). These early basket-hilts were configured somewhat differently than the later "classic" broadswords we're all used to:



You can buy one here (scroll down):
http://www.armourclass.co.uk/Data/Pa...tury_Main3.htm

BTW, since belted plaids ("great kilts") appear in 1590's documents, they were almost certainly being worn a mere 20 years earlier. As for head-gear, the Elizabethan-period knit bonnet (from which Scots bonnets descend) would be a grand choice:



You can get one of those here:
http://www.qualitycaps.co.uk/pages/p...ts-3tc-all.asp

[ScottEPooh]

Not to hijack the thread (but I guess I'm a gonna), although I do think that getting into an historical re-enactment is pretty cool, and I look forward to following this thread for period ideas, but I did find it odd that Scotus used the terms "historical re-enactment" and "SCA" in the same sentence. Let us not forget, SCA stands for "Society for Creative Anachronism", which freely lets everyone know that they ain't lookin' for "historically accurate". That off my chest, I am thrilled to watch you pile another hobby on your plate, Alan!!

[LANCER1562]

Alan,

As you know, having seen me at Adenwood and again at Dunsmur, I am a member of a re-enactment guild that re-creates the court of Mary in about 1562. My character is the Sergeant of the Queen's Lancers (her foot soldiers) and I wear a black great kilt as does the Captain of the Lancers.

It's probably not historically acurate, but in 90-100+ degree heat, who cares it's comfortable. Besides most of the tourists really don't know that much about history; nor do they care they just like to see agood show. Which is what we give them.

What group are you planning to join?

[Bigkahuna]

Alan,

As you know, having seen me at Adenwood and again at Dunsmur, I am a member of a re-enactment guild that re-creates the court of Mary in about 1562. My character is the Sergeant of the Queen's Lancers (her foot soldiers) and I wear a black great kilt as does the Captain of the Lancers.

It's probably not historically acurate, but in 90-100+ degree heat, who cares it's comfortable. Besides most of the tourists really don't know that much about history; nor do they care they just like to see agood show. Which is what we give them.

What group are you planning to join?

Err........Just wondering. If you guys are foot soldiers would it not be more likely that you are "Pikemen" as Lancers are mounted troops?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

BTW, since belted plaids ("great kilts") appear in 1590's documents, they were almost certainly being worn a mere 20 years earlier.

One could argue with equal authority that they almost certainly didn't exist prior to 1590! Since we know for certain that the great kilt was was worn in 1594, that should be the spring board for reenactors, not some wholly imaginary time before that date chosen for convenience or self gratification.

A "man-at-arms" in Scotland, in the third quarter of the 16th century, would look very much like his continental counterpart insofar as arms and armour would be concerned. And, because his profession paid well, he would have been almost as well dressed as the Laird he served.