Stock to Cravat...Brian????

[Dall_Piobaire]

Hey guys, does anyone know about when the cravat replaced the stock, or were they still pretty interchangeable up to a certain era. I would also appreciate a suggestion on the proper formal jacket that might be appropriate with either style. I was thinking a Jabot???

[Woodsheal]

The stock - of leather, horsehair, stiffened linen, etc. - which buckled or tied at the back of the neck, I've always considered to be an item of military dress (right up to the mid-19th c.), generally worn by enlisted men.
The 18th c. cravat - a long neck cloth about 6 inches wide - was what civilians (and officers) generally wore. As the 19th c. progressed, this type of cravat gradually evolved into our current styles of neck-tie....

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I bought a black silk cravat from a place catering to nineteenth century reenactors. I wear it with my black Argyle and waistcoat with formal Highland attire and really like it.

I don't see why it wouldn't work with other jacket/doublet styles, but it really demands a high (five button) waistcoat, rather than the deep-cut three-button style.

[Dall_Piobaire]

Thanks Brian and Matt!

Matt, that looks sharp mate, I really like that!!!! That would look good as a period piper's outfit.

Brian, I didn't realize that the stock was just worn by the common soldier, but now that I think on it I am sure you are right.

A stock with the regulation Doublet, and the cravat like Matt wears it! That really does look good!

Thanks again guys
Scott

[Sir William]

Coming in late, but Woodsheal has it pretty much right. The neckstock was a military item for the most part, while the cravat was worn from at least the 16th century if not earlier (this is as far back as I've studied the clothing) by civilians and officers (though some officers wore a linen stock instead of one made of leather or horsehair). The cravat eventually evolved into the necktie we know today.

[blackbeard]

The first known portrait of a cravat is one of Ivan Cundulic, a Croatian poet painted in 1622.


LouisXIII of France saw the Croatian mercenaries wearing them at the end of the 30 Years War and adopted them into the French court (with the addition of lace) around 1630. Until then, men in Europe wore only collars; first standing and then falling on the shoulders. Charles II brought the cravat to England with him in 1660 and there they stayed on men's necks in one form or another until the end of the 19th century eventually ending up as the modern necktie.

[Dall_Piobaire]

Very cool, thanks guys!

So, with that in mind, a piper working as either in service to a clan chief, or as the town piper, even if there was military background, would have more than likely worn the cravat, with either a doublet or period jacket?

Sir William, my son goes into the Marines July 12, 2010. Peacekeeper has been a huge help in me dealing with my thoughts on that. His son is over there now.

[Jock Scot]

We still wear a stock when we go hunting(UK hunting definition:on a horse with a pack of hounds, or even a foot pack of hounds)

[SFCRick]

[QUOTE=Jock Scot;800618]We still wear a stock when we go hunting(UK hunting definition:on a horse with a pack of hounds, or even a foot pack of hounds)

I hope you make nice Sporrans from your prey

[Woodsheal]

For those wondering what a "stock" is (other than the wooden part of a long gun!), look here:

http://www.najecki.com/repro/misc/Neckstocks.html#horse