MORE Rules?!!!

[MacLowlife]

Bad weather brings out the typist in us all. I have been surfing and have found many strange and wondrous things which I ask the advice of wiser men on:

1) Someone posted a link to Tyneside Tartans http://www.tynesidetartans.com/jackets.htm list of rules for the Prince Charlie, including this advice "Never wear a belt with a Prince Charlie" which seems wise, but then their illustration, tiny as it is, seems to show a man in a PC with waistcoat and belt- or maybe just a 4 inch gap between the top of his kilt and the bottom of said waistcoat... I don't even know how to ask a question about this, sorry.

B) A Clan Society's webpage acknowledges that they can't stop me from wearing their tartan, but goes on to talk about the RULES OF THE SCOTTISH CLAN SYSTEM


The rules of the Scottish clan system (I quote): Excepting the "District", "Caledonia" and "Jacobite" tartans, no one should wear a tartan to which invites scorn, and is contrary to the whole principle of the clan system. Nor does one "select" tartans from this or that "line" of ancestors. The vital question is, "To which Clan do I belong?"

1. You "belong" to the clan of which you bear the name or sept name.

2. You have no real right to wear your mother's tartan unless you have taken her name.

3. You cannot belong to several clans at once.

4. Adherents (cliathe) of non-clan names are, as followers, sometimes allowed to wear the tartan (usually a hunting set if any) and to become members of a clan society.
he is not by name or descent entitled. To do so is foolish and ill-mannered,

[Um, that would be the website quoting, not poor MacLowlife...]

Golly. I have been ill mannered in my day, but I prefer not to be foolish. I recognize the authority of each clan chief with in his or her own clan, but I do wonder about this. I would be pleased to hear from Practical Scots and from North Americans, as well as anyone else.

Many Thanks for patience, tolerance, and forbearance...

[sydnie7]

Regarding belts, the suggestion that seems to predominate on this forum is "no belt with waistcoat." Doesn't matter what jacket you're wearing.

As for the "what tartan may I wear" question, it's been discussed at length; you might start here then see if you have questions that aren't covered.

[Zardoz]

They are more like "guidelines" you know !

I've heard all of those before at one time or another generally from folks wearing no tartan whatsoever! I'm glad the "Caledonia" tartan is in the clear! (although I had a fellow challenge my 'right' to wear it once!)

They didn't mention white hose did they??

[sfb]

1: I think that's just a photie of "some guy in a kilt". The overall appearance of the website doesn't really suggest that the designers would have sprung for the cost of getting a model to dress up to illustrate their point.

B 1-4: Well, I'm sure it's true that no one should wear a tartan that "invites scorn" - or "to which invites scorn" as they put it - but after 45 years in Scotland I can safely say that I've never witnessed a tartan scorning scenario.

They're no' very impressive, ahem, "rules". Foolish and ill mannered sounds about right.

[Heming]

... but after 45 years in Scotland I can safely say that I've never witnessed a tartan scorning scenario.

Come over here, and I'll scorn your tartan and heckle your mother

[Nick the DSM]

Don't worry about it, man. I wear my mother's side tartan and they can't stop me! Heck, Sean Connery wears his mother's tartan.

Some rules are just screaming not to be followed...then again I'm a teenage rebel.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Regarding the Tyneside Scottish site, generally one does not wear a belt with the Prince Charlie jacket, because generally one wears a waistcoat with a Prince Charlie and one shouldn't really wear the two together (there are exceptions to that "rule" as well, mind you). I've seen the Prince Charlie worn without the waistcoat, with a dress belt and buckle, and thought it looked fine. I just don't like the look of the two together.

But beware sites that give the "rules" of Highland dress using lots of words like "always" and "must" and "never." For example, further down that same page it says that a Prince Charlie is "always worn with ghillie brogues." Excuse me? I know plenty of sharp-dressed Scots who would never dream of wearing ghillie brogues, Prince Charlie or not.

Then it says a Prince Charlie is "always" worn with a bow tie, but immediately following says a lace jabot looks great, too. Well, if a lace jabot is acceptable, then it is not "always" worn with a bow tie, is it?

Sigh.

And the bit about clan tartan. Goodness gracious!

In reality, it is true that one really only belongs to one clan -- that is, according to the clan system of old where one swore loyalty to one's chief. You couldn't divide your loyalties.

However, I would argue that for most people today "belonging to a clan" has more to do with honoring one's ancestry and less to do with one's willingness to take up arms and report to the summons of one's chieftain. I know lots of folks who are members of more than one clan society, representing different lines in their ancestry. They do so out of an interest in their geneaology, as a means of making connections, gathering more data, and celebrating their heritage with others who hold that heritage in common. If you have the time and energy for it, why not belong to more than one group?

But in any case, the way one really displays one's loyalty to a clan is by displaying the crest badge of said clan. The crest represents the cheif and the strap and buckle signifies that your loyalty to the chief. Not the tartan. Tartans are worn symbolically but the meaning there is largely of importance only to the wearer.

That nonsense about those who don't really bear the clan name, but only a "sept name" being allowed only to wear the hunting tartan is just that -- nonsense.

For me, my life is complicated enough without having to worry about someone else's made up rules telling me how to dress. :-)~

[billmcc]

All kinds of information, including mis-information, can be found on the internet. It is up to the reader to decide if the information is factual or just someone's opinion. One way to distinguish opinion from fact is to consult a couple of different sources.

[Garry Oak]

I'm new at this. One of the first things that I've been made aware of is that, as in other areas of life, the map is not the territory.

The succinct rules that I've seen quoted have either been too vague or too specific to provide comprehensive, cook-book directions about what to wear in every situation. I didn't learn to ride a bicycle by reading a book, either. The words 'always' and 'never' have become red flags: they tell me to investigate further what the writer is trying to convey. Can I find a historical basis for wearing almost anything? Sure, but why buy and wear an expensive garment in a particular tartan the wearing of which which might provoke arguments?

There are hundreds of tartans that look great. There might be only a small chance of mistakenly wearing a tartan from a clan whose chief would really prefer that only clan members wear it. There's at most a vanishingly small risk that some hypothetical young member of such a clan, taking something he's read to extremes, might come striding across the field at a highland games to punch me in the back of the head. That's not going to happen; I'm using hyperbole to illustrate what I mean.

What I mean is this: I'll be most comfortable in a tartan that reflects my own affiliations. That might be a place in which I've lived, a place from which my ancestors came, a place whose history fascinates me or (in my case) USAK's Firefighters' Memorial tartan. I acknowledge that such specificity might be excessive; it's a quirk of mine. Moreover, I believe that I've seen a link here to a web page with a clan chief's explicit statement that anyone in the world was welcome to wear his clan's tartan if they wished to do so.

Rather than planning to follow a particular set of written rules exactly, I'm here to learn from the wise and the informed how the kilt is really worn. Learning about the ways by which I might inadvertently 'push someone else's buttons' is part of that. The key, for me, is to read the views of those who really know what they are doing, and I particularly enjoy their photographs of what works.

[sfb]

Don't worry about it, man. I wear my mother's side tartan and they can't stop me! Heck, Sean Connery wears his mother's tartan.

Some rules are just screaming not to be followed...then again I'm a teenage rebel.

I'm just thinking about this a wee bit more. I always wanted a clan crest tattoo, and took the plunge about 5 years ago. My late father's clan motto was - depending on what source you consult - "By virtue safe".

With the best will in the world, that didn't sound like way my Dad had led his life, so I chose my mother's - "Grace me guide". I figure that at least makes me sound as if I'm trying to do the right thing.

Anyway - that's a bit more permanent than wearing a tartan, so I'm still hoping those aren't really "rules".