pleating to the sett & the elements of the sett - Do I have this right?

[jhockin]

So: i'm starting on kilt #5, a traditional hand sewn ( following Barbs 'bible'- aka "The Art of Kiltmaking"). Spent a good portion of the day doing test pleats & reading & re-reading 'AoK'.
Finally ( after numerous versions of 'to the stripe', and box-pleating) decided to go with ( & practise) pleating to the sett.
Here are some photos that I thought might help others (IF [BIG "IF"] I did this correctly! -please, kiltmakers, let me know if I've done this wrong, BEFORE I start sewing - tomorrow!).

First, I studied the "elements of the sett" and marked off those elements between 5/8" & 1", marking "A", as what I have already chosen as center stripe/'center back stripe':
-from left to right: F,A,B,C,D,E:


2nd, a close-up of the test pleat, with the "elements" marked:
F,A,B,C,D,E,F,A,B,C,D,E,F,A
(I notice that the pleats differ in the width of the 'reveal'/what shows; I assume this is normal? .. it seems to look 'right', as far as repeating the sett.)

and, finally, the test pleat, alongside a length of the (so far)unpleated "Maple Leaf" tartan, that I am using for this kilt (16 oz) (winter is on the way, and i'll be wanting the warm one(s)! :

[The Wizard of BC]

Just a question.

Are all your pleats the same width of reveal?

It looks from your pictures that you stuck strictly to the elements and did not attempt to keep the pleats all the same size.

If this is indeed true then this would be incorrect.

You can fudge on where the pleat crease is in an element to keep the pleat width all the same. In an extreme case like Maple Leaf you can even fudge on the total sett if you have to. The finished pleating may not line up perfectly with an un-pleated section of fabric.

The thing you should look out for when picking where the pleat crease will be is to avoid having an element that will disappear when you taper.

The Maple Leaf Tartan would not be my first choice to give to a first time kiltmaker. But if you can do the Maple Leaf you can do almost any Tartan.


BTW, did you remember that the Maple Leaf Tartan is asymmetrical and allow for a hem in the other piece?

[jhockin]

Steve ( wow! that was quick! thanks!):

(quote: "Are all your pleats the same width of reveal?
It looks from your pictures that you stuck strictly to the elements and did not attempt to keep the pleats all the same size.")
- Yes, you are right, the reveal DOES differ ( as I think i mentioned, in my post?), as I DID stick to 'the elements - however, there will be no taper ( for now - I live in hope of regaining my once 'boyish figure", or at least some of it; so I plan to NOT cut out the inside of a couple of the pleats, either side of the back - for (hopefully) future alterations (to smaller waist).

(quote:" BTW, did you remember that the Maple Leaf Tartan is asymmetrical and allow for a hem in the other piece?")
- NO, I didn't "remember" ( since i didn't know - but it does explain some of the time & trouble I had doing test pleats) that it is an asymetrical tartan ... back to the 'drawing board', i guess

(quote: "The Maple Leaf Tartan would not be my first choice to give to a first time kiltmaker. But if you can do the Maple Leaf you can do almost any Tartan.")
- I LOVE a challenge! ( and a warm winter kilt!

[sydnie7]

No taper. . . I wonder.

There have been several discussions here about people who say that their rump and waist measurements are the same.

In reality, you probably have two circles of the same diameter (waist circle and rump circle) but I doubt that they have the exact same center in your body.

Try this -- imagine you are wearing p@nts, or actually put a pair on if you own them. Now measure from side seam to side seam around the FRONT of your waist. Then measure side seam to side seam around the REAR of your rump. This is about what your finished kilt hip measure should be, and I bet it is larger than you think. The aprons need to fall straight down from your navel toward the floor, not tuck inward under your belly.

I could be wrong, of course, but very few people are truly straight up and down with zero taper from buttocks to small of back.

[fluter]

To keep the pleats the same size: You could "shrink" elements B, C, E and still preserve the look of the sett. Or if there's enough space and fabric, you could turn some of those wider elements into 2 pleats.

Love that Maple Leaf tartan!

[Barb T]

Ah, the Maple Leaf. I've made several kilts from it, and here are the things that I considered when I pleated it. Here's a pic of the back of one of the kilts:



The tartan is asymmetric, but the only aspect of asymmetry is the fact that the dark green undercheck has a centered khaki stripe that has a different color stripe on each side. This is actually a tough one, because everything else about the tartan is symmetrical. Unless you happen to be extremely lucky in the sizes of your pleats, the only way to retain equal width of the dark green wide stripes is to split the central khaki stripe down the middle. Every other option makes one green stripe wider than the other, unless, as I said above, you happen to be extremely lucky in pleat sizes.

So, I chose to retain the overall symmetry of the red and green undercheck by splitting the central khaki stripe in the green undercheck. I just didn't think it would look right to have the wide greens be different in width, although that is certainly an option. This is not an easy peating option for a beginner, though, because it requires precise pleating for the pair of pleats that split the stripe. And I chose the wide khaki in the red undercheck for the center front and back, because that element is a symmetrical element, and it looks better to center a symmetrical element than an asymmetric one.

The _other_ thing you have to deal with is what to do about the fact that the sett is only about 4.5" (if you have F&K tartan). This is a really small sett. If you put one sett into each pleat, you'll have a tremendous number of very shallow pleats. If you double the sett, you'll have fewer pleats that will be wider and deeper, and, unless you're a smallish person, you might not have enough tartan if you only have 8 yards. I doubled the sett on all the ones I made and used over 9 yards of tartan in each one, with 23 or so pleats in each. Great, heavy kilts, with lots of swish, but also a lot of tartan. If I had only 8 yards, I'd probably still double the sett and have larger, fewer pleats, but I can give you some advice on that if you tell me how much tartan you have and what the hip measurement is for the kilt.

OK - and the last thing that you likely have to deal with if you bought the tartan from F&K is that the tartan is likely not to be square. I've had several double width pieces of this stuff, and one half of a double width piece is worse than the other. You can easily check to see if your piece is afflicted with the problem. Lay the tartan out on a table with the long edge parallel to the table edge, and line a framing square or T-square up with the edge. The cross stripes on a good piece of tartan should essentially line up with the other edge of the framing square. If it they don't, your tartan is skewed and you really have to deal with it before you make the kilt. I've had pieces of Maple leaf that are off by a couple of _inches_ across a piece only 25" wide - i.e., the weft and warp aren't perpendicular to one another.

I learned the hard way that you _have_ to deal with this before you make the kilt if you want to solve the problem. Here are two strategies. Rip the tartan to the right width, and then get someone on the other side of the tartan to help you pull the tartan on the bias, stretching it against the skew direction. Takes a lot of pulling. Or, you can skew it opposite the skew direction and steam it square. Helps to have a big table (I put a wool blanket on top of a table) and someone to help you skew the tartan while you steam. Keep checking with a framing square or T square, repeating until it's square. Because one edge of the F&K tartan seems to be skewed more than the other (at least in my limited experience), you have to do slightly different things on the two halves if you're splitting a DW piece. That's why I suggest ripping the tartan to width before de-skewing. Once it's de-skewed, you can lay out your kilt.

And, as Steve says, all the pleats have to be the same width. And if you have only 4 yards DW of an asymmetric tartan, the kilt will need a hem (see the kiltbook appendix on dealing with asymmetric tartan). So be sure to allow for the hem when you rip the width!!

[jhockin]

No taper. . . I wonder.

There have been several discussions here about people who say that their rump and waist measurements are the same.

In reality, you probably have two circles of the same diameter (waist circle and rump circle) but I doubt that they have the exact same center in your body.

Try this -- imagine you are wearing p@nts, or actually put a pair on if you own them. Now measure from side seam to side seam around the FRONT of your waist. Then measure side seam to side seam around the REAR of your rump. This is about what your finished kilt hip measure should be, and I bet it is larger than you think. The aprons need to fall straight down from your navel toward the floor, not tuck inward under your belly.

I could be wrong, of course, but very few people are truly straight up and down with zero taper from buttocks to small of back.

sydnie7
yes, you are correct; there is a one inch difference, W&H. ..I guess I should have 'said' very little taper. Thanks for your tip - I'll try that & re-check my 'splits' - haven't started sewing just yet.

Barb:
thanks, your photo really helps!

- (quote: "I chose to retain the overall symmetry of the red and green undercheck by splitting the central khaki stripe in the green undercheck.")
- I'm guessing that the green you refer to is what I was thinking of as black, and the 'khaki' is what I was thinking of as 'beige', in the three stripes: gold, beige, & brown??
- (quote: " If I had only 8 yards, I'd probably still double the sett and have larger, fewer pleats, but I can give you some advice on that if you tell me how much tartan you have and what the hip measurement is for the kilt.")
- I have 4 meters ( and yes, it is F&K, 16 oz.dbl wide)( already ripped into two pieces) & hip measurement is 45". - sounding like your suggestion to make deeper & fewer pleats (rather than 35, using single repeats) is a very good idea. Just wondering what size your pleats ( in the photo) are/were ?
-(quote: "be sure to allow for the hem when you rip the width!!")
- yeah, I screwed up there, too! Already ripped hte material - missed that part in your book, (but, it is heavily underlined & notated, now ). So, there is an 'offset'. of about one inch, bwt the 1st & 2nd piece; I'm hoping I can compensate, for this, by (after making a narrow hem, to make the two pieces match) a wider waistband ( say 1>11/2 inches??)

[Barb T]

There's no black in this tartan, actually. The dark color is green, and I've marked out above what I referred to as the "green undercheck". It would be a symmetrical block if the stripe on each side of the khaki (beige) were the same color, but it's not.

The pleats in the kilt in the photo are slightly more than 1" in width at the hips. So, if you could get 35 pleats out of using a single sett per pleat, you're likely to get only 17 if you double the sett. For hips of 45", you'll probably split the hips evenly (22.5" fore and aft), making the pleats a bit more than 1 1/4" across at the hips. I think for a man of your size that it would be OK and preferable to 35 narrow pleats. But it points up the problem with a sett that's small - it's too small for a normal # of pleats but not so small that you get a normal number of pleats by doubling the sett. That's why most commercial kilting tartan is woven with setts between 6 and 8". I have no idea why they wove it so small in 16 oz tartan.

If you decide to compensate at the top for putting in a narrow hem at the bottom, use only a 1 1/2" rise when you lay out the kilt. You can make the top band wider, if you want, to compensate. Better that than having the tartan reverse at the center back.

Oh - and just an aside! I actually didn't take a photo for either the images above. I just plunked the kilt on a scanner. Handy trick to know about if you have a scanner.

[fluter]

I bow to the mast... er, mistr... err, kilt goddess.

Better that than having the tartan reverse at the center back.

I do have this nagging vision of a reverse Kingussie, with a mirror-image sett on each side of the center back. IF all of the stripes lined up between the two pieces, of course. But actually the vision that sticks with me is 8 yards of single-width Maple Leaf.

[Barb T]

I do have this nagging vision of a reverse Kingussie, with a mirror-image sett on each side of the center back. IF all of the stripes lined up between the two pieces, of course.

The only way you could do this is to have a seam right down the center of the center back pleat. If you did a reverse Kingussie, that would be essentially hidden, which is what I assume you were thinking, Ken. But, you'd have to live with the fact that the twill line would slant one way on one side of the center back and the other way on the other side.

Could be nice, and would certainly be one way to solve the problem if you had only 4 yards double width!