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5th November 09, 04:42 PM
#1
Jacket types
Hello Lads (and Ladies),
I'm about ready to convert my first tweed but, before I cut, I need help. I've searched up and down and I'm still somewhat confused as to the differences between an Argyll, a Braemar, a Crail, ect.
Could someone help out by giving me a description of each? What I'm looking for is the differences in buttons (placement and number), cuffs, pockets, ect.
Any and all help is appreciated.
Karl
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5th November 09, 04:55 PM
#2
Argyll Jackets
The Argyll day/evening jacket is versatile, altering its formality with accessories.
Suitable for all occasions, from dinners and Burns Suppers, balls and ceilidhs, to weddings, graduations,
Highland games or simply as general day wear.
Braemar Jackets
Similar to the Argyll jacket, but with more formal Prince Charlie style cuffs,
the versatile Braemar can alter its formality by changing accessories.
Suitable for all occasions, from dinners and dances, to graduations and weddings,
or simply as smart day wear.
Crail Jackets
Similar to the Argyll jacket, but with less formal plain cuffs, the day/evening wear Crail outfit
is often seen at events such as ceilidhs, games, or simply as general office or day wear.
Also suitable for wedding guests too.
I hope this helps.
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5th November 09, 06:35 PM
#3
Be aware that various Highland dress makers use these terms Argyll, Braemar, and Crail in differing ways.
House of Edgar, for example, was calling their black kilt jacket with gauntlet cuffs "Braemar".
Depending on maker, you'll see all three terms used for any of the three cuff styles.
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5th November 09, 06:45 PM
#4
Good point OC Richard, though generally speaking those are what they are called, perhaps the best thing would be to check with the manufacturer.
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5th November 09, 08:11 PM
#5
One from Column A, etc
ExDrag, I believe the more important questions are what you want your jacket to look like and how much sewing ability you bring to the task. A jacket by any other name will keep you just as warm. My understanding is that the modern trend is towards a plainer jacket, with no special cuffs at all and the kind of pocket flaps most suit jackets have. Without question, that is the easiest jacket conversion to do, because it requires the least work. On the other hand, if you are up to it, cutting and sewing the military cuffs of the Braemar is not so difficult, but I think they are a little incongruous on a herringbone, or even a Donegal tweed jacket. The Bucket / Gauntlet cuffs of the Argyle are the trickiest, but they are not so very tricky and they offer the advantage of being added on all around, thus giving you a handy way to lengthen the sleeves if necessary.
My post title refers to what I see as the current state of jacket design: You select a fabric, then you select a pocket style, then a cuff style. In fact, you can even select the number of buttons and vents. Whatever combination of variables you concoct, someone else has done it and given it a name, maybe ( as pointed out above) the same name as some slightly different arrangement.
You didn't ask, but I started telling you and I will continue. If your jacket has much of a pattern at all, the ornamentation of bucket cuffs and those cute little rows of stitching will just busify it unnecessarily, in my cantankerous opinion. The military cuffs will look funny on a patterned jacket, too, unless you opt to make them a solid color.
May I suggest that you poke around and see what the Prince of Wales (The Duke of Rothesay) wears in photos.
And do let us see what you come up with. Thanks
Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife
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5th November 09, 10:50 PM
#6
Originally Posted by MacLowlife
On the other hand, if you are up to it, cutting and sewing the military cuffs of the Braemar is not so difficult, but I think they are a little incongruous on a herringbone, or even a Donegal tweed jacket.
These are what I consider to be Braemar cuffs on my tweed jacket. I don't know if the herringbone pattern shows up that well on the upload but that's what it is. I'm not sure what appears incongruous to you about this combination.
Ken
"The best things written about the bagpipe are written on five lines of the great staff" - Pipe Major Donald MacLeod, MBE
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6th November 09, 07:08 AM
#7
The terminlogy for all this seems to be spongy, but I've heard the cuffs as appear on military doublets called "gauntlet cuffs" or "Argyll cuffs" and the cuffs such as appear on Prince Charlie jackets called "slash cuffs".
I've seen both cuff styles on military doublets, and on tweed day jackets, and on black Argyll/Braemar/Crail pipe band jackets.
In addition there's the old pointed cuffs, nowadays only seen on the doublets worn by the Atholl Highlanders.
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6th November 09, 07:14 AM
#8
JACKETS : WHAT ARE THE 'RULES'
Highland Dress jackets, doublets or coatees have historically varied according to the fashion of each succeeding period. This variety has therefore prevented Highland Dress from becoming archaic and has allowed individuality which is not always found in other types of dress.
In the 17th century the elaborate doublets of the Restoration were worn and the 18th century disclosed a succession of velvet and tartan doublets and coatees. Whilst we can trace mediaeval, Jacobean, Georgian and Victorian influences on modern styles, it was the styles of the mid 18th century which formed the natural basis for the modern styles we know today.
Eveningwear Formal Kilt Jackets
Coatee & Vest
The Coatee & Vest is the most popular Eveningwear Formal jacket. The Kinloch Anderson Coatee jacket is a short jacket and although it has three Celtic buttons down the front these are never fastened. It also has three Celtic buttons on the jacket cuffs.
The back of the jacket features short tails with four Celtic buttons on each side arranged in a traditional pattern formation. Most frequently it is made in black barathea fabric with silk lapels but other coloured barathea and other fabrics such as velvet can also be used. The Vest (waistcoat) is fastened with three Celtic buttons. A jacket similar in style to the Kinloch Anderson Coatee and Vest is often referred to as a Prince Charlie jacket.
Montrose Doublet
The Montrose Doublet is a double breasted short cut evening jacket with high collar and 10 symmetrically positioned Celtic buttons on the front, 3 Celtic buttons on each cuff and an epaulette with a Celtic button on each shoulder. This jacket is worn with a belt and normally with lace jabot and lace cuffs. A barathea cloth or rich velvet is usually used for this jacket.
Kenmore Doublet
The Kenmore Doublet was designed by Kinloch Anderson (William Anderson & Son Ltd at that time) in the early 1900s and was a simplified form of the then “old fashioned Doublet”. This is a single breasted evening jacket with high collar worn with a belt. There are flaps at the back and the front with 3 Celtic buttons and 2 Celtic buttons at the centre back.
The front fastens with 5 Celtic buttons and there are 3 Celtic buttons on each cuff and epaulettes with a Celtic button on each shoulder and is normally worn with lace jabot and lace cuffs. This jacket is most frequently made using black barathea fabric, but other coloured barathea and other fabrics such as velvet can also be used. A belt gives additional smartness of line.
Sheriffmuir Doublet
The Sheriffmuir Doublet is an evening jacket with high collar. It is fastened at the top button with a curved cut-away front featuring 5 Celtic buttons on either side, 3 Celtic buttons on each cuff and epaulettes with a Celtic button on each shoulder. There are flaps at the front and back with 3 Celtic buttons.
The Sheriffmuir Doublet is usually worn with a matching or tartan 7-button waistcoat and lace jabot and lace cuffs. A rich velvet fabric is often used for this jacket.
Regulation Doublet
The Regulation Doublet is a short cut evening jacket with silk lapels worn open with a low break point. 3 Celtic buttons are positioned diagonally on either side at the front. There are flaps at the front and back; a gauntlet cuff with 3 Celtic buttons and epaulettes with a Celtic button on each shoulder. A rich velvet fabric is frequently selected for this jacket.
A low fastening waistcoat with lapels and 2 lower pockets accompany this jacket.
Semi Formal Kilt Jackets
Argyll Jacket
The Argyll jacket is a semi formal jacket suitable for day or evening wear and is longer than the Coatee and Vest. It has a double vent at the back and is normally worn open although it can be fastened at the top button. There are 2 Celtic buttons on the jacket, 3 Celtic buttons on each pocket flap and 3 Celtic buttons on each gauntlet cuff. There are no Celtic buttons on the back of this jacket.
Most frequently it is made in black barathea but other coloured barathea and other fabrics such as velvet can also be used. The Argyll jacket can be worn with a matching or tartan waistcoat as an optional extra.
Daywear Kilt Jackets
Tweed Jacket
The Tweed jacket for daywear is shorter than a normal trouser jacket. This jacket has a double vent at the back and can be worn open or fastened at the top button. There are 2 Staghorn buttons on the jacket and 1 on each cuff. This jacket can also be worn with a matching or tartan waistcoat. The Highland Dress daywear jacket is most frequently made using green or blue Lovat tweed but there are a wide range of tweeds to choose from. Additionally plain Charcoal tweed is also very popular and particularly suitable for weddings.
Tartan Trouser Jackets : The Kinloch Jacket
The Kinloch jacket is exclusive to Kinloch Anderson, specially designed to wear with tartan trousers being a longer cut trouser jacket (though still shorter than a blazer or dinner jacket). This jacket has a front fastening with 2 Celtic buttons and 3 Celtic buttons on each cuff. It features 2 lower pockets with flaps and 1 breast pocket and has a double vent at the back. It is available in black barathea and can be made using coloured barathea and other fabrics such as velvet.
Highland Dress has its own set of 'rules' about what is acceptable and what isn't. Like many things, these rules have become more relaxed over time, but it's wise to know the unwritten rules so that you will never - unknowingly - make a mistake when wearing your Highland Dress.
The first question to ask is what type of event do you see yourself wearing the jacket to most often? A black tie Highland ball? Or a Sunday afternoon at the Highland Games? Some jackets are better suited to formal occasions, and others to a more dress casual look.
For the most formal events, it was once common place for Highland gentlemen to wear doublets such as the Montrose or Sherrifmuir. These have become much less common now than they once were, and have largely been supplanted by the Prince Charlie jacket (pictured at right). This is the Highland dress equivalent of a tuxedo jacket, and has been very popular since the first half of the 20th century as a simple but elegant jacket for evening wear.
The Prince Charlie jacket is usually worn with a three-button vest (which is typically sold along with the jacket at a unit price), but also looks nice with a cummerbund. Black is the most common color for this jacket. They can also be found in other dark colors, such as navy blue or bottle green. Depending upon the tartan you are wearing, one of these other colors can be a nice way to "stand out from the crowd," though black is always an appropriate choice.
The Prince Charlie looks best when worn with a simple black bow tie. Some do wear it with a lace jabot, though strictly speaking this looks best with one of the older forms of dress doublets. One really should not wear a long neck tie with the Prince Charlie, as it simply does not go well with the cut of the jacket.
Perhaps the most common form of kilt jacket is the Argyle (sometimes spelled Argyll). The Argyle jacket is made with a less formal cut, similar to a man's sportcoat, though made shorter for wear with the kilt. The Argyle jacket can be had in many different types of cloth, the choice of cloth determining whether the jacket is suitable for formal or casual wear.
An Argyle jacket made from black wool is a very versatile garment. It can be worn with a black bow tie for "black tie" affairs. It can also be worn equally well with a long neck tie for a less formal look. It can be worn with or without a vest (waistcoat). See the below images for examples. If one is to only acquire one kilt jacket that must serve for both formal and semi-formal functions, the black Argyle is an excellent choice.
Argyle jackets are usually available in a variety of other colors. Darker colors, such as navy blue, also lend themselves well to more dressy occasions. Argyle jackets made from lighter colored wool or tweeds are considered day wear jackets. These are more appropriate for wear at Highland Games, morning or day time functions, etc. They are the Highland dress equivalent of a blazer or sportcoat. See the below images for examples of Argyle jackets made from an olive green wool and a Harris tweed.
Depending upon the occasion, a daywear Argyle jacket can be worn with a neck tie, or with an open collar shirt. Both formal and daywear Argyle jackets can be worn either with or without a vest. Vests made to wear with Argyle jackets are typically made as a five-button vest, rather than the low cut three-button vest worn with Prince Charlie jackets. Argyle vests are normally sold separately and though usually made to match the jacket, can also be made from tartan to match the kilt, or another complimentary color (such as seen at right).
One note about wearing any type of vest with the kilt. Whenever a vest, cummerbund, sweater or pullover is worn (in other words, anything that covers the top of the kilt), there is no need to wear a kilt belt. Forgoing the belt creates a much cleaner look, and in fact can be more comfortable.
A final note about the jacket cuffs. There are different styles of cuff to be had on any kilt jacket, and the names of these cuffs often confuse people. In general, the gauntlet cuffs are called "Argyle," the three-button patch cuffs are called "Braemar," while plain cuffs are called "Crail." These names are not universally used by all jacket manufacturers, however, which can lead to confusion. For instance, though the gauntlet cuffs are called "Argyle" and are most often seen on Argyle jackets, not every Argyle jacket must have gauntlet cuffs. The Braemar cuffs are typically seen on Prince Charlie jackets, but not universally so. Some Prince Charlie jackets are made with gauntlet, or "Argyle" cuffs. Some manufacturers will call an Argyle cut jacket an "Argyle" jacket if made with gauntlet cuffs, a "Braemar" jacket if made with Braemar cuffs, and a "Crail" jacket if made with plain cuffs.
Another manufacturer might call an Argyle style jacket with Crail (or plain) cuffs a "modern kilt jacket." One manufacturer is currently producing an Argyle jacket made from a lovely charcoal grey wool, made with Braemar cuffs and sold with a matching vest; they call this their "Crail" jacket, even though it does not have Crail cuffs (see picture at left).
The Prince Charlie Jacket
The Prince Charlie is a full-formal outfit. When wearing a Prince Charlie jacket you must NEVER, EVER, wear a belt. A well-made kilt will not require a belt. There is some debate on whether a belt is acceptable with Trews when wearing a Prince Charlie Jacket. The jury is still out, but our advice is to stick to a kilt.
The Prince Charlie should only be worn with a Dress Sporran. Don't be tempted to try and 'get away' with a semi-dress sporran - officianados will frown, and your friends will disown you. The same is true in reverse. A Dress Sporran should only be worn with a Prince Charlie outfit.
A Prince Charlie is always worn with Ghillie Brogues.
With a Prince Charlie you should always wear a bow-tie, although a Jabot and Cuffs are acceptable and suit the Prince Charlie Outfit very well.
When you look at it, a Prince Charlie Jacket doesn't really exist in isolation. It's the full outfit or not at all.
Argyll Jackets
The Argyll is a more traditional cut of jacket. It's still designed for formal wear and suitable for many events. Fortunately, the 'rules' are more relaxed.
The Argyll day/evening jacket is versatile, altering its formality with accessories.
Suitable for all occasions, from dinners and Burns Suppers, balls and ceilidhs, to weddings, graduations, Highland games or simply as general day wear.
You can wear your Argyll with a semi-dress or daywear sporran, a bow-tie or self-coloured tie can be worn. Tartan or patterned ties are not really suitable, although a tartan bow-tie seems to pass muster these days.
Footwear is a matter of choice, although formal events suit the Ghillie Brogue particularly well.
Braemar Jackets
Identical in most ways to the Argyll jacket, but the Braemar has Prince Charlie style cuffs, the versatile Braemar can alter its formality by changing accessories.
Suitable for all occasions, from dinners and dances, to graduations and weddings, or simply as smart day wear.
Crail Jackets
Similar to the Argyll jacket, but with less formal plain cuffs, the Crail has plain cuffs. The day/evening wear Crail outfit is often seen at events such as ceilidhs, games, or simply as general office or day wear.
Also suitable for wedding guests too.
Tweed Jackets
The ultimate in versatility. Tweed jackets aren't limited to being worn only with Highland Wear. Jackets made from this cloth are so versatile that you can wear it all the time.
A Tweed jacket, worn with a kilt and a semi-dress or daywear sporran, is extremely versatile. This outfit is acceptable at many black-tie events and can be worn with a bow-tie or self-coloured tie.
Your Tweed jacket can be worn with other outfits - not just your Highland Dress - so is the ultimate all-in-one jacket.
A few things to remember. First is that all of these jackets are essentially daywear kilt jackets. The differences can be boiled down to 1) sleeve details, and 2) the material the jacket is made from. I think we cannot discount the importance of No. 2.
The sleeve details are important, but I do not really think they are the most important factor in evaluating the formality of any given jacket. For example, in your original post, what makes the first jacket more casual looking than the other two is not the fact that it has Argyle cuffs, but the fact that it is a brown color Harris tweed. Cloth like that makes for a superb daywear jacket, but the darker color of the other two jackets you picture make them more suitable for "dressing up" for evening wear if the need arises; sleeve details notwithstanding.
Another caveat is that the names you have given to the different cuff styles are not universally followed. What you have laid out here is how most people would describe those types of sleeves. However, sometimes you'll encounter different usages, so let the buyer beware. For example, to most people a "Crail jacket" is one with plain cuffs. But "Crail jacket" is the name House of Edgar uses for their charcoal-grey kilt jacket with Braemar cuffs.
Some people use the term "Argyle jacket" to mean any kilt jacket with a shape and cut like those you have pictured, regardless of cuff style. What you call an "Argyle" cuff they will call a "gauntlett" cuff. So an "Argyle jacket" can have a gauntlett, braemar, or crail cuff.
Some people call a Braemar cuff a "Prince Charlie" cuff, because that style jacket is normally made with a Braemar cuff.
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6th November 09, 07:36 AM
#9
So you have to wear Ghillie Brogues with a PC....
I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…
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6th November 09, 07:45 AM
#10
Originally Posted by Ted Crocker
So you have to wear Ghillie Brogues with a PC....
No, you don't have toTed. In fact, I suggest the only place for ghillie brogues, is the bin.
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