A Swan in Search of his "True" Clan

[Cygnus]

As I've posted previously in the Tartan section of the forum, my surname is Swan and I have been searching for the clan to which my ancestors belonged. While most people seem to have the luxury of comparing their last name to the names of the clan and the lists of septs, I have found a rather frustrating issue with these lists and my name.

It's listed under two clans.

According to The Lord Lyon's website: "There is no official list of recognised septs. This is a matter for each chief to determine. But where a particular sept has traditionally been associated with a particular clan it would not be appropriate for that name to be treated by another clan chief as one of its septs."

That didn't stop the Swan name from being included in both the Clan Gunn and Clan MacQueen lists.

I've done as much family research as seems possible currently, and the trail goes cold in Midlothian (specifically Leith and Edinburgh) in the late years of the 18th Century or the very early years of the 19th century.

Combine with this the Swan tartan from the Affleck slides - it is indistinguishable from the "Ramsay Blue" tartan, and the Ramsays' main holdings seemed to be in the area in which my ancestors lived; though Swan is not listed as a Ramsay sept.

So, I am at a complete loss. I would love to know which clan my family considered themselves a part of (and get a kilt made up in that tartan), but I have run out of information and leads.

I realize many of you will suggest I pick one, take them all, or find a universal tartan that I like - and that is perfectly sound advice; though I think my ideas of clan membership and family identity are a bit too romantic for that.

If anybody has any knowledge of these clans or my family name, recommendations for additional searches, or can provide any other assistance, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you!

[Chas]

I have built my own database of Clans and their Septs. So far 4,000+ names and counting.

You are quite right that Swan is counted as being both Gunn and MaQueen. I would point out though, that Sveinsson, Svenson, Swan, Swann, Swanney, Swanson and Swenson are all Gunn. A ratio of 8 to 1 in favour of Gunn.

As a general rule of thumb, surnames come from one of four categories: place name, physical characteristic, trade or son of name. I would argue that Swan is a corruption of Swen and is a Norse (Highlands and Islands) name,

Or,

Is a Gaelic trade name. If it is a trade name in Gaelic then it is more than likely that it could occur in more than one clan (every clan needed metalwork done, so there would be a Gow in every clan).

There is as well the whole concept of Sept to be considered. Some were little more than slaves (tied to the Chief); some had more independence and farmed the clan lands (they could leave, but the land stayed behind); some had even more and were paid employees. I believe that the Lamonts hired the Von Alroths (German stonemasons) to build them a castle. The whole process lasted 150 years and the Von Alroths became a sept of Lamont.

So it is possible that your forebears were jobbing workers, moving round the highlands from one employment to another and if and when they settled became a part of the clan they were with.

I am not going to say "Pick one", but I will say, be aware that you might never find an answer.

Regards and good luck

Chas

[xman]

I'm a MacDonald of Clanranald, but had I never met my father at nineteen years old (me not he) I would never have known this and likely worn Clan Donald or MacDonald of the Isles. Within Clan Donald many clans were born and some absorbed back into their parent clan. Many MacDonalds of Ardnamurchan were folded back into Clanranald as I understand it. If I discovered that such was the case for my line I might consider adding such a tartan to my wardrobe. My step-father, the man who raised me, is Clan Anderson and I may just do that for his tartan anyhow. Perhaps some Swans in your past were too far afield from the Chief Swan of Swan and allied themselves with Gunn. perhaps others did the same with MacQueen.

Long story short;

If your trail is now cold, you should follow your gut and/or go with the broad brush stroke of using the Swan/Ramsay tartan. If, at any time in the future, your digging yields new results, well then you're within your rights to switch loyalties. It's normal practice.

[Cygnus]

If, at any time in the future, your digging yields new results, well then you're within your rights to switch loyalties. It's normal practice.

It's good to know that's normal practice, though the thought of "switching loyalties" really doesn't sit right with me. I've been doing more research and have a couple of leads, but they're really just shots in the dark.

And Chas, those are both things I've taken into consideration; Swan can be a reference to a Norse name or it can refer (at least in Middle English, I'm not sure about any Celtic languages) to a swineherd. My most distant Scottish ancestor for whom I have a record was born in the 1770's and is listed as a weaver. His son became a boot-maker, and his son became the auditor of a sizable city. By the late 1700's, though, it's possible they had departed from the trade that garnered them their last name sometime during the previous century or so.

As I stated in the thread in the Tartans section, the ancestor mentioned above spent time in Ireland during the Rebellion of 1798. I am thinking he may have been a member of one of the Scottish Fencible regiments that was sent to Ireland at that time. If he was, though, I find it interesting that he is listed as a weaver rather than having his rank listed. I also find it interesting that his wife (apparently) accompanied him since their son was born in Ireland in the few years they spent there.

But, this isn't a genealogy forum so I will digress. I suppose I was just hoping that somebody would come along with a lead that put me on the trail again.

I appreciate the help that everyone has given thus far!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Despite the 8:1 ratio in favour of Clan Gunn, for what it's worth I would suggest the most likely candidate would be MacQueen, (ie: son of Sweyn).

Finally, although I have known only three Swans in my entire life all claimed to be MacQueens, and proudly wore that tartan.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I was going to say the same thing as Rathdown; it's not really fair to claim an 8 to 1 ratio for the clan Gunn, when the name MacQueen itself means "son of Sven/Sweyn." Just because the person who happened to type out the Gunn sept list listed more variations of the name than the person compiling the MacQueen sept list doesn't mean much one way or the other.

Unlike Rathdown, however, all the Swans and Swansons I know seem to have joined up with Clan Gunn!

Despite what the Lord Lyon's web site says, it's really not that uncommon to find the same surname listed among more than one clan. The name Allen (which is my mother's maiden name) is listed among clans MacKay, MacFarlane, Grant, and MacDonald of Clanranald -- however my Allens are actually English! It just reflects the reality that there may be multiple origins for the same surname; that families moved around, and often changed clan allegiances as a result; and that historically what clan you belonged to had little to do with your surname anyway.

I hazard to say that most people who consider themselves part of "Clan X" don't really have 100% proof positive that they descend from that clan. They do the best they can with the information they have.

[Cygnus]

I hazard to say that most people who consider themselves part of "Clan X" don't really have 100% proof positive that they descend from that clan. They do the best they can with the information they have.

I understand that - I think the thing that is frustrating to me is that all I really have is my surname and the knowledge my ancestors came from Scotland. Some of my family members have Clan Gunn memorabilia because they walked into some touristy shop and were told by the person behind the counter that Swan is a sept of Clan Gunn so that is their clan. My personal feeling is that most little shops like that don't carry badges, ties, or kilts for less common clans, so it makes economic sense to tell potential customers that they're part of clan X when it really could be Y or Z as well.
Maybe it's because of that that I tend to lean more toward the MacQueen clan.

I've read a few articles that discuss the dubiousness of the Swan(son) connection to Clan Gunn. Since the Patriarch of Clan Gunn was Sweyn it would make sense for the Gunns to be a sept of the Swan clan or to be a separate clan altogether. Additionally, there's no historical reference to Swans within Clan Gun until the late 17th century, so it makes me wonder about the connection through Sweyn and Gunni.

So, that's what I have - a surname, some research, and an inclination toward the MacQueens. I will continue to try and determine where my family lived prior to their move to Edinburgh and, if the search continues to prove fruitless, I will probably go with Clan MacQueen.

Thank you, everyone, for humoring me and putting up with my insane (or inane?) desire for certainty!

[Riverkilt]

There can be many clans in one's family tree. I like to honor them all.

[Cygnus]

There can be many clans in one's family tree. I like to honor them all.

I think I will probably at very least get a kilt in the MacDonald of Glencoe tartan, since there's a story in my family that one of my fourth-great grandfathers was the next in line to inherit the clan chiefship when his younger brother "convinced" him to sign away his inheritance after a day of excessive drinking!

It's a story that I haven't investigated in much detail, but it is a story that comes up often in my family!

[xman]

I think I will probably at very least get a kilt in the MacDonald of Glencoe tartan, ...

That's a beautiful sett and one that I am inclined toward myself.