Looking to tweak the sgian dubh

[Drac]

Good day all,

I've done about 3 of the full tang sgian dubhs and am looking to tweak the look in.

The orginal design had a raised carved surface and a thinner, smooth, only slightly rounded back I have seen in quite a few pieces. There are also many that have both sides of the handle equal and are smoother on the curves -



There are also the other extreme and are very thick and very bulbous -



So what are your folks opinions?

Jim

[Ryan Ross]

I'm a fellow who likes to carry a usable knife, and won't carry a sgian dubh unless it has a good blade. With that in mind, I like a sgian that fits comfortably in the hand and on the leg. A little shape to the handle is nice for looks, but personally, I'd want a lower level of decorative relief. I also like the handle portion to not be too out of balance with the blade, as that can promote the knfe migrating out of the sock.

You do excelent work, sir, and every one of your pieces that I've seen would fit the above bill, I'm sure. If anything, perhaps some shaping on both sides of the handle, but a bit lower than your usual outside scale?

[ShaunMaxwell]

Drac:

I've been a fan of your sgian since you posted the first iteration some months ago. I think the design is beautiful, but I'm with Ryan Ross on the value of simple and utilitarian in combination with a usable blade.

Here's kind of a dumbed-down version of your sgian that I'd sketched up some time ago, for what it's worth (which may be nothing at all!). The blade details are from a sgian I'd had made recently, and the handle is yours, simplified a bit.

Love your work!

SM

[artificer]

I'm a fellow who likes to carry a usable knife, and won't carry a sgian dubh unless it has a good blade. With that in mind, I like a sgian that fits comfortably in the hand and on the leg. A little shape to the handle is nice for looks, but personally, I'd want a lower level of decorative relief. I also like the handle portion to not be too out of balance with the blade, as that can promote the knfe migrating out of the sock.

I'm with Ryan here. The "baby dirk" look seems too handle-heavy. I'm also not one for over-ornamentation, no matter how traditional it may be.

I like the flattened leg-side of the handle as well. I'm a huge fan of your work as-is (obviously) Perhaps just experimenting with the basic silhouette of the handle?

edit: Shaun, that actually looks quite a bit the sketch I sent to Drac when I asked about a custom handle shape. Mine was loosely based on the handle shape of the Swiss Baselard.

[Drac]

If you'll excuse me for high jacking (and slaughtering) your pic.

Here is one thought I've seen and did like, tapering it off at the end -


You pic is one of the ones I have also been concidering.

And yes, Scott, your design is one of the reasons for the tweaking

Jim

[artificer]

If you'll excuse me for high jacking (and slaughtering) your pic.

Here is one thought I've seen and did like, tapering it off at the end -


You pic is one of the ones I have also been concidering.

And yes, Scott, your design is one of the reasons for the tweaking

Jim

Oh No! Hopefully I haven't thrown you off-kilter with my request

The tapered rear end seems under-developed to me. Almost like the rest of the knife has been pumping iron while the end has been slacking off. Kind of like guys who go to the gym to 'buff up' but only focus on arms and chest and end up with tiny chicken legs on a giant torso

Maybe part of the problem altering your designs is that your initial full-tangs are so nicely balanced and proportioned? Over thinking and making changes for the sake of change is certainly something I've been known to do.

[Ryan Ross]

The tapered rear end seems under-developed to me. Almost like the rest of the knife has been pumping iron while the end has been slacking off. Kind of like guys who go to the gym to 'buff up' but only focus on arms and chest and end up with tiny chicken legs on a giant torso

I agree with that 100%. It'd still be a fine looking knife, but not near as fine as the sgians you've already produced, IMHO.

When a knife tapers down at the butt like that, I always feel like pressure on the handle moves the knife out of my hand, rather than keeping my hand firmly in place (as with a butt end that's flared a bit).

[ShaunMaxwell]

Drac:

How about something a bit less tapered, like this?

Is the challenge overcoming the weight of the the metal buttwork? If that's the case, what about eliminating the metal butt?

[Ryan Ross]

I like that one better, as it still has a little bit of shoulder near the end of the handle.

[Drac]

Is the challenge overcoming the weight of the the metal buttwork?

A little bit. The sgian is rear heavy, not by much but I have found that unlike me most people prefer a balanced knife. Learning all my skills in a kitchen I have differing views of knives. For slicing and chopping and slicing I like a forward weighted knife, French chef for instance. I let the weight of the knife do the cutting. On fine work like deboning and general task like package opening to be rear weighted. This gives a lot of tip control.

I will be removing the rear bolster in later, casual models. For dress I like the bolster and it gives a place for filework. It will always be a balance casual and dress like a lot of accessories.

On quality, I do use good steels. The first couple, like all my prototypes, were made from 440C. Good steel with decent edge retention. Now I will be moving on to my normal steels, ATS34 and CPM154 (when available). Both have much better edge retention and the CPM154 has a much higher strength. While I always want my knives to be used I also take a realalistic view that the average person is not going to go into a survival exercise with one of these blades. If they are and let me know I can use S30V which can hold it's own with most carbon steels. Amazing edge retention but you HAVE to use diamond or ceramic sharpeners or you will wear out your stone quickly and take a lot more work to sharpen it. I started using it on hunters so it would last in the field and be sharpened at home after hearing stories about using two knives to field dress, one was always being sharpened and traded out.

I will say I do have my own problems in that I always want to make the knives beautiful. Problem is even if you tell people that you are using a steel that requires diamond to sharpen and the handle is stabilized so that it is as strong as any synthetic material that is it looks nice it can't be usable.

I did this knife a few years ago for a commission.



The blade is Damasteel and the handle is stabilized whale jaw bone. The steel is as strong as CPM154, about a 61r. A strong steel for stainless. The bone is the densest in the work and stabilized to minimize shrinkage and staining. It, overall, is one tough knife but the owner isn't allowed to use it. It is kept in a safe and only brought out to show off.

That's not a knife, its sculpture.

Jim