Answer to Black Watch spat question?

[Chukta]

A previous thread posed the question: "Why did The Black Watch have the front of their spats cut off square? Various versions have the distinctive spat design as a dishonor for breaking a hollow square at a certain battle, to an honor bestowed upon the regiment.
I think the final answer may come from the Osprey book on The Black Watch:
According to the book's historical research, " Some curious fables have been invented about the origin of the square-cut toe of the spats, but this was merely a tailor's device, to prevent the end from working to one side or another of the toe-cap" A simple answer, and maybe this answers an age-old question.

[Bigkahuna]

Why then, are the Black Watch the only Regiment to wear that pattern??

[Slag101]

I feel, from research, that the military supply system was very well standardized (at least for most of the late 1700s & most of the 1800s). So that is a good question as to why they are the only regiment with that pattern. This being said, I am unfamiliar with aspects of the ordinance system, such as sub-contractors, depots, etc. From my limited research though, the UK seemed pretty good at maintaining the integrity of the uniform patterns, as far as them being universal for the groups to which the items belonged to. That being said, there seems to be quite a bit of variation in the multitude of uniforms worn by different regiments of the crown. Is it possible that the commander of the regiment, at some point, selected that pattern, and it has stuck since?

I compare/contrast to the uniform (or lack there of) of US troops in the 1860s, which were far from "uniform" and compliant with pattern/regulations, even among the "regular" army troops, let alone the volunteers, and their multitude of equipage.

Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable of the UK military supply system will put some info up.

[OC Richard]

I never imagined that there was any "story" behind the shape of the spats of the Black Watch, but accepted it as yet another example of the variation in Highland Dress amongst the pre-1881 kilted regiments (the 42nd, 78th, 79th, 92nd, and 93rd Foot).

Each regiments' spats were shaped somewhat differently and varied between officers and men. For example the spats of the 92nd Foot were rather taller than those of other regiments. I have a photograph in front of me of a man of the 79th Foot taken in 1859 which shows spats with somewhat squared toes.

I suppose one of these days bogus legends will crop up to explain why some regiments had their kilts knifepleated and other regiments boxpleated.

They might go something like...

"The Black Watch kilts were knifepleated to commemorate the action in which they ran out of ammunition and attacked only armed with their dirks"

"The Argylls kilts were boxpleated to commemorate the action in which they formed a square to repulse a cavalry charge"

and all such nonsense.

The fact is that everything about the dress of these five 19th century kilted regiments varied, from sporran construction to feather bonnet construction.

[macwilkin]

I never imagined that there was any "story" behind the shape of the spats of the Black Watch, but accepted it as yet another example of the variation in Highland Dress amongst the pre-1881 kilted regiments (the 42nd, 78th, 79th, 92nd, and 93rd Foot).

Each regiments' spats were shaped somewhat differently and varied between officers and men. For example the spats of the 92nd Foot were rather taller than those of other regiments. I have a photograph in front of me of a man of the 79th Foot taken in 1859 which shows spats with somewhat squared toes.

I suppose one of these days bogus legends will crop up to explain why some regiments had their kilts knifepleated and other regiments boxpleated.

They might go something like...

"The Black Watch kilts were knifepleated to commemorate the action in which they ran out of ammunition and attacked only armed with their dirks"

"The Argylls kilts were boxpleated to commemorate the action in which they formed a square to repulse a cavalry charge"

and all such nonsense.

The fact is that everything about the dress of these five 19th century kilted regiments varied, from sporran construction to feather bonnet construction.

Whilst I agree with Richard that such symbolism around the pleats of regimental kilts might be a bit much, there are documented cases of items of kit unique to individual regiments that do symbolise an event in regimental history; for example, Bryon Farwell tells us in Mr. Kipling's Army that the Gordons wore black buttons on their spats in mourning for General Sir John Moore, who was killed at the Battle of Corunna, Spain in 1809. This story also can be found in The History & Handbook of the Gordon Highlanders:

http://www.thegordonhighlanders.co.uk/History.htm

"Ten years later at Corunna, at the end of the great retreat, the regiment had a prominent place at the funeral of their distinguished commander and it is in Sir John Moore`s memory that black buttons are worn on the spats."

In the US Army, the famed 3rd Infantry, the "Old Guard", wears the "buff strap" -- a piece of black & tan leather worn on the left shoulder of each member of the regiment to commemorate the knapsack straps worn by their 19th century counterparts & distinguish them from other army units.

Such "totems and talismen" are a way for regimental history & traditions to be passed down to incoming recruits; a good friend of mine who was a paratrooper in the 82nd Airborne, for example, used to tell how every soldier was instructed in the history of the Division by the unit decorations they wore -- The Eighty-Duce wears an Orange lanyard of the Military William Order of the Netherlands in commemoration of the regiment's crossing at Nijmegen in Operation Market Garden in 1944.

T.

[OC Richard]

Oh for sure, I know about the Gordon's black buttons, black line in gold lace, and black line in the gold officer's epaulettes.

But people have an unfortunate tendency to seek hidden meanings and bogus traditions in everything.

[macwilkin]

Oh for sure, I know about the Gordon's black buttons, black line in gold lace, and black line in the gold officer's epaulettes.

But people have an unfortunate tendency to seek hidden meanings and bogus traditions in everything.

Good point; witness the relatively recent trend of the symbolism of folding a US flag, which has no basis in history. We used to hear that all the time at the historic site where I worked; our Chief Ranger, who was an Indian Wars "buff", had researched the topic and found that before the 1930s, the flag was simply folded and placed on a shelf in the post armory...

The Kirkin' of the Tartans legend also comes to mind.

T.

[Bugbear]

Good point; witness the relatively recent trend of the symbolism of folding a US flag, which has no basis in history. We used to hear that all the time at the historic site where I worked; our Chief Ranger, who was an Indian Wars "buff", had researched the topic and found that before the 1930s, the flag was simply folded and placed on a shelf in the post armory...

The Kirkin' of the Tartans legend also comes to mind.

T.

Here's the snopes.com take on the flag folding myth:
http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp

I'll admit that I either did not remember or did not know of any of these "meanings" of the folds.

Is there a typical reaction to the debunking of these types of myths, Cajunscot?

[macwilkin]

Here's the snopes.com take on the flag folding myth:
http://www.snopes.com/military/flagfold.asp

I'll admit that I either did not remember or did not know of any of these "meanings" of the folds.

Is there a typical reaction to the debunking of these types of myths, Cajunscot?

Whenever I was asked about it, I generally took the approach of the Snopes article and the statements by the USAF; there's nothing wrong (obviously) with these sorts of ceremonies and symbolism, but they do not originate from the US Flag Code. It's a fine line to walk, because obviously these sorts of things invoke very strong feelings -- the key is to diplomatically debunk the myths, and know when not to say anything at all.

T.

[NorCalPiper]

In the summer of 86 when I was "GULP" 15, I was working the summer at the Fort on the Isle of St. Helen with the 78th Fraser youth squad. I was fortunate enough to (I wonder how many AMericans have had this privilege) to compete with the Black Watch at MAxville and to march in the Canada Day parade and at Ft.Ticonderoga. the spat thing was something that I asked since I had been used to wearing rounded spats in my band in Atlanta. i was told by everyone including the Pipe Major that it was a DISHONOR for breaking ranks at some battle.