Opinions on Antique Kilt Pin

**Dram** · 29th December 10, 08:55 PM

Recently aquired this antique kilt pin and feel quite lucky to have gotten it. I had only seen the pin via a picture and wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I thought initially, that maybe it was from the 1950's or 60's. I wasn't certain what kind of metal it was.

Once I recieved it I was very surprised. It is most certainly silver, and I can see where it was tested by the seller, beyond that, it felt very very old. Sometimes you can just "feel" the age of an item. I studied it quite a bit and now think it is from the middle 1800's and possibly earlier. Was wondering if I could hear some other opinions as to its age and history? Please note: the item is very worn and it is possible it did indeed have hallmarks at one time. Would appreciate any info. Thanks.

**Whidbey78** · 29th December 10, 11:56 PM

I won't speculate about the date, but I will say that it is an interesting piece. Congrats on a good find. Hopefully someone here can shed some light on it for you.

**Derek Conley** · 30th December 10, 01:10 AM

I like it. It's quite unique.

**Paul Henry** · 30th December 10, 02:59 AM

It's very hard to judge from a photo, you have the upper hand in actually handling it, but from the picture it looks much more like pewter, can I ask why do you think it is silver?And why do you think it is old, there have been many people casting replica objects, which are very hard to date accurately. Also why do you think it is a kilt pin from the mid 1800's, yes of course it is a sword and shield design,but at that date kilt pins might have been an unusual item, so perahps a broach instead?
I'm not saying it isn't genuine, just expressing some thoughts

**Jock Scot** · 30th December 10, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by paulhenry

It's very hard to judge from a photo, you have the upper hand in actually handling it, but from the picture it looks much more like pewter, can I ask why do you think it is silver?And why do you think it is old, there have been many people casting replica objects, which are very hard to date accurately. Also why do you think it is a kilt pin from the mid 1800's, yes of course it is a sword and shield design,but at that date kilt pins might have been an unusual item, so perahps a broach instead?
I'm not saying it isn't genuine, just expressing some thoughts

My thoughts too. I doubt that it was ever intended to be a kilt pin and that design of sword does not lend me the idea that it is British. Only thinking.

**Chas** · 30th December 10, 03:53 AM

Besides being a guarantee of a purity standard, Hallmarks are a way of identifying an object. A full set should include a year of proofing mark (not year of manufacture), a mark to identify the proofing house (the Hall), a manufacturer's mark and maybe a special event mark.

They are stamped into the metal and designed to not to wear away. If they wore away within a short space of time it would defeat the object of having them stamped in the first place. It takes a lot of wear and a lot of polishing to remove them.

On Christmas Eve this year, I took Communion at my parish church. The Challis and Paten that were used are of Tudor manufacture. The date year is 1547 (Henry VIII). This year they are 463 years old and are only used on Christmas Eve and Easter Monday. At midnight, in a large church, lit only by candles, I could see the hallmarks on the base of the Challis quite clearly.

I cannot see them or their remains anywhere on your broach. This leads me to believe that it is not silver.

Sorry.

Regards

Chas

**Maclachlan** · 30th December 10, 04:51 AM

I tend to agree with Chas. In the absence of any kind of hallmark and just by looking at the backside really leads me to believe it's pewter as well. Silver, when it tarnishes has a blackish bronze hue to it where pewter just gets a bit more gray.

**tulloch** · 30th December 10, 07:40 AM

If it is soft and can be bent it might be pewter. If it has no hallmarks it might be coin metal - a silver alloy made from melting coins that were in circulation at the time it was made. How heavy is it? I think it would make a great brooch for a scarf or plaid. Pretty.

**Dram** · 30th December 10, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by paulhenry

It's very hard to judge from a photo, you have the upper hand in actually handling it, but from the picture it looks much more like pewter, can I ask why do you think it is silver?And why do you think it is old, there have been many people casting replica objects, which are very hard to date accurately. Also why do you think it is a kilt pin from the mid 1800's, yes of course it is a sword and shield design,but at that date kilt pins might have been an unusual item, so perahps a broach instead?
I'm not saying it isn't genuine, just expressing some thoughts

I know the photo does for sure look like pewter. Those were my thoughts as well. I will try to get a better photo or two soon.The metal is actually very bright and much harder than pewter it is also the same color as my other antique silver items. The test scratch is visible on the back, probably not in the picture but the metal is solid and not plate.

The reason I think it is old and from the 1800's is because it is ornate (yet not as ornate as they made in later Victorian times) and in the Victorian tradition. It is also very very worn. If you look at the small circles on the targe you can see some are almost completely gone also some of the acanthus styling is almost gone.

I was using kilt pin/brooch interchangeably. Yes this was probably intend as a brooch.

**tulloch** · 30th December 10, 09:05 AM

There is a nice website that you have to look at. I have found the exact brooch seen front-on. Iona is a place where a lot of artisans have worked to produce celtic-themed items. I have gotten some pieces by a couple makers who are influenced by the work of Alexander Ritchie. Check this out. http://www.alexander-ritchie.co.uk/sword_brooch.htm. It could be that your brooch is a casting from one of those brooches or it could be an original. Look all over it for any marks, side, under the pin, etc.