13oz vs 16oz kilts

[matt.mackinnon]

I get that a heavier weight in fabric can equate to a more durable kilt, but from what I have seen of examples, a 16oz fabric is generally coarser as the knit is not as tight as the yarn that makes it is heavier.

But from reading posts here, it seems that many like the 16oz kilt more than that of a 13oz. Is that just because I have not seen better quality fabric, or does it just come down to preference?

I get the feeling from my other thread, that I am going to be pulling my order from one kilt maker in Toronto, and going with John Hart even though it's likely a good 3-4 month wait for my order.

From my limited conversation with John, he recommended a 16oz kilt from House of Edgar. I had originally ordered a 13oz kilt from Strathmore.

Matt.

[The Wizard of BC]

Matt,

The weave of 16oz fabric is not looser. The tension of the yarns and the tightness of the weave is about the same.

There are two ways to make kilt fabric heavier. One is to use thicker yarns. This produces what may feel coarser but not any looser.
The other way is to pack more yarns per inch into the weave. This would produce a less coarse feel but sometimes a stiffer fabric.

Some weaving mills use one method, some the other. Most of the larger mills with rapier looms use the larger yarn method.

The primary reasons to choose one weight over another are 1. The cost is a bit more for 16oz. 2. The swish factor is better with heavier fabric 3. A heavier kilt is a bit warmer around the back of the waist.

[Laird_M]

IMHO, the only real difference between the two is the weight and comfort. It also tends to be labelled as 'military weight' due to the wear it may get on the battlefield.
A 13oz kilt can be quite hot, and having, briefly, once worn a 16oz, I found it a bit too warm.

If the weave is loose, I'd suggest avoiding that material as it hasn't been woven properly.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

IMHO, the only real difference between the two is the weight and comfort. It also tends to be labelled as 'military weight' due to the wear it may get on the battlefield.
A 13oz kilt can be quite hot, and having, briefly, once worn a 16oz, I found it a bit too warm.

If the weave is loose, I'd suggest avoiding that material as it hasn't been woven properly.

FYI, if you see tartan labelled as military weight or regimental weight, it will be 18 oz cloth and woven from different yarns than your typical 16 oz worsted. Regimental cloth, according to my understanding is woven using a combination of worsted and saxony yarns, which gives the regimental weight that "fuzzier" feel and appearance.

Here's a close up of 16 oz worsted tartan.


Here's a close up of 18 oz regimental tartan.


If you look you can see the regimental weight example has more "fuzz" to it.

[matt.mackinnon]

when saying it's not as tight, perhaps this casts the wrong image. Think of silk vs cotton. As the threads of silk are so much smaller, you end up with a tighter weave of fabric as there is less texture on the top and it gives you a much smoother finish. Not that cotton has gaping holes in it.

I was always of the opinion that the swish is controlled by the type of pleats in the fabric and their depth. A knife pleat will always swish better than a box.

[JohntheBiker]

Matt,

My first kilt was a 13oz Strathmore, Campbell of Cawdor. I love the kilt and it has held up really well. With perfect hindsight, if I only had one kilt, I might have gone for a 16oz "tank".

13oz or 16oz - if you get a hand sewn kilt from a good kiltmaker and tartan from a reputable mill (Strathmore falls into that category) you can't go far wrong.

[creagdhubh]

Matt,

All of my kilts are made of 16 ounce, heavy-weight tartan. I have always believed that the heavier material is well suited for kilt-making specifically in regards to providing deep pleats, durability and a superb swing. There is actually a Macpherson tartan that I am I rather fond of, the Macpherson 'muted' woven by House of Edgar, in which they offer in their 13 ounce, medium-weight range, but not in their 16 ounce, heavy-weight range. Even though I really like this tartan, I probably will never "pull the trigger" on having a kilt made up in it due to the lighter weight, but hey, that's just me and one of my weird, little quirks!

16 ounce, Macpherson 'hunting' tartan in the 'ancient' colour scheme, from Lochcarron's Strome (heavy-weight) line.



Cheers,

[McElmurry]

My first kilt is an eight yard 13oz from the HoE muted line I selected based on colors. The first thing I noticed when I took it out of the box is it is too heavy for serious hill walking. The second thing I noticed is it has a fluid feel to it and in pictures it molds to the body more than many 16oz kilts. You can notice this in aprons or over the thigh when someone has a foot forward in a picture. The HoE 13oz is known to be difficult to press and combined with the lighter weight I don't think the pleats look quite as crisp as some 16oz kilts I have seen.

That being said I love the color and the kilt is extremely comfortable. I wore it all day in Pleasanton with temperatures in the low 90s and was not overly warm. So in conclusion I would say an eight yard 13oz kilt from HoE fabric is neither fish nor fowl. It does not have the crispness of a tank and is not tremendously lighter in weight. If you love the colors then go for it. If you really want a tank or a four yard box pleat look for a 16oz fabric you like even if you like a 13 oz better. Hope this helps. I am on the left in the picture wearing Morrison red muted in 13oz HoE. Panache may chime in but I am guessing from the drape he is wearing 16oz.

[fluter]

The bottom line for a full-yardage kilt is that either medium or heavy fabric from a reputable mill will not disappoint. For a 4 or 5 yard kilt, the cognoscenti hereabouts highly recommend 16-ounce. I'll report back, if I ever finish my 4-yarder.

On swish factor: momentum = mass * velocity, so on the face of it, more momentum (16 oz fabric) means more swish. In addition, the 16 oz. fabric usually has a somewhat larger sett, so those pleats are deeper. Therefore more fabric = more mass per pleat, and even more momentum! Q.E.D.

Like McElmurry, i have a HOE 13-oz kilt in the muted colors, which I absolutely love. According to the original definition, it is indeed a tank. It swishes pretty well, too.

The HoE 13oz is known to be difficult to press

I've never heard this---nor experienced it. I set the pleats in this one just over 4 years ago, and I have yet to touch it up.

Wallace muted kilt, casual mode by arcturus1997, on Flickr

From the FAQ: A 'TANK' is defined as an eight-yard, wool, hand-sewn, traditional kilt. ie., "It's built like a tank." (coined by Jimmy Carbomb c.2005)

[RockyR]

I'm pretty sure it's an 11 oz PV kilt Panache is wearing (since we've made many for him, one of which I believe was a MacNaughton Muted which is the tartan he's wearing in the pic below).

SNIP... I am on the left in the picture wearing Morrison red muted in 13oz HoE. Panache may chime in but I am guessing from the drape he is wearing 16oz.

For what it's worth, I wear all kind of kilts... 8 Yard 16 oz Hand Sewn, 8 yard 16 AND 13 oz machine sewn, 5 yard 16 AND 13 oz machine sewn, Semi traditional 11 oz PV kilts and Casual 11 oz PV kilts. I've also made and pressed all of the above (except I've never made a full hand sewn myself... not enough patience hand sewing to do that). There is a difference between them all, but the difference between an 8 Yard 13 oz and an 8 yard 16 oz is relatively negligible IMHO.

Re. Creasing / pressing the pleats... Some 16 oz cloth from certain mills is a bit more difficult to press (MM 16 oz or HOE's Nevis range), where some take a crease VERY easily (Lochcarron's 16 oz). The same goes for 13 oz... Some are slightly harder to press (HOE's cloth is a LITTLE harder to press) where others are easier (Strathmore's 13 oz). Now when I say 'harder' to press, I don't mean it takes 10 times longer or won't take a crease... I simply mean it takes the iron, steam, and pressure a few seconds longer to create a nice crease. I haven't noticed any difference in how the pleat creases hold up over time IF they are properly ironed in the first place.

Just my $.02