Cardinal Sin???

[Bobby Gordon]

Hi there.
I'm fairly new to the kilt wearing world, I only have the one kilt. But I dont really like prince charlie jackets, although I'm sure I get one at some point.
So I have a grey tweed Araca jacket, and orriginally I bought myself a leather day sporran, and the plan was that for the wedding my brothers were going to wear them too, but my then fiance conviced me to get a dress sporran so that I'd stand out a bit. Which I didnt really like the idea of at first because I'm not really a big fan of them. But I found one in Edinbugh that I LOVE. So I gave my leather sporran away. But I've just recently read that you should only wear a dress sporran with a prince charie jacket.
Is this true??

[BCAC]

What? Are the kilt police out in force again? You can wear your dress sporran with whatever you like. Even with a pair of jeans if that floats your boat!

Dress sporrans are USUALLY worn with evening dress. That means either a doublet (Montrose, Kenmore or others), a Prince Charlie coatee or an argyll jacket "dressed up" with a low cut 3 button waistcoat, but it's your wedding so do as you please. If you (and your fiancée) like it, and you both think that it looks good then wear it! Just don't invite the kilt police.

[Bobby Gordon]

Oh cool, thanks BCAC, that's what a thought. I wasn't sure, especially as there's a whole section here on "How to Wear a Kilt Properly"!
Yeah, I did wear it with the tweed jacket and it looked awesome. very pleased with how it all looked.
Also, when I came to buy the Sgian Dubh and Kilt Pin I decided to buy the gift set that Art Pewter and it came with a belt buckle. So I decided to wear it with my jacket and waistcoat. But again, I've read that if you wear a waistcoat you shouldn't wear a belt. Am I assume that really it comes down to personal choice?
So may I ask, what would you do if you were me and you were to the highland games or a Celidh dance or similar highland gathering?

[Jock Scot]

What? Are the kilt police out in force again? You can wear your dress sporran with whatever you like. Even with a pair of jeans if that floats your boat!

Dress sporrans are USUALLY worn with evening dress. That means either a doublet (Montrose, Kenmore or others), a Prince Charlie coatee or an argyll jacket "dressed up" with a low cut 3 button waistcoat, but it's your wedding so do as you please. If you (and your fiancée) like it, and you both think that it looks good then wear it! Just don't invite the kilt police.

BCAC has got it spot on and as you are the groom, then you are "allowed" a certain amount of lee-way!

Whilst there are no dress regulations with civilian kilt attire, it is not an unwise thing to be aware of the conventions and traditions of civilian kilt attire even if you choose, in the end, to ignore them.

Good luck laddie!

[MacRobert's Reply]

So may I ask, what would you do if you were me and you were to the highland games or a Celidh dance or similar highland gathering?

Highland games or gathering - tweed jacket and waistcoat or belt with leather day sporran. However, some games are very casual and in hot weather a shirt is sufficient with the kilt.
Informal ceilidh - the same as above.
Formal ceilidh - often black tie with a doublet or any of the black barathea highland jackets with silver buttons, waistcoat (no belt) and dress sporran.

Don't agonise too much. Wear what you have and enjoy the events. You will see all sorts of outfits at games and ceilidhs.

This site is a great source of useful information but since you will be wearing the kilt in Scotland, I would tend to go with the advice from native Scots as kilt-wearing conventions can be a bit different depending on where you live. Having said this, there are some very well informed and 'traditional' kilt wearers on the other side of the pond.

[David Thorpe]

You have a more serious problem, my friend. You obviously have a certain level of understanding regarding Highland dress, and still your fiancee is trying to dictate your wardrobe selections. Nip it in the bud, immediately! Precedent of this sort could be a life-long thorn in your pleats!

Seriously, best wishes to both of you in for your new life together. And be sure to post photos of the happy event.

[Holcombe Thomas]

Good advice.

The only thing I can add, from across the pond, is that there is really only one opinion to which you need to pay attention. She says to wear the dress sporran, and so you should.

Best wishes to you both, have fun, and (rules are rules, after all) post pictures.

[Tobus]

But again, I've read that if you wear a waistcoat you shouldn't wear a belt. Am I assume that really it comes down to personal choice?

I many ways yes, it's a personal choice. I've certainly seen many people wearing a belt under a waistcoat. But the traditional view is that one either wears one or the other. If your kilt fits you properly, you shouldn't need to wear a belt with a waistcoat, and it would be hidden by the waistcoat anyway. So it would be superfluous. In fact, it would create an unsightly bulge under your waistcoat. So the question which leaps to mind is "why would one want to wear a belt with a waistcoat?"

Now the wearing of a belt over the waistcoat is another matter entirely. It, too, is occasionally done. But those more knowledgeable than I would need to explain the hows or whys of doing that.

[BCAC]

I many ways yes, it's a personal choice. I've certainly seen many people wearing a belt under a waistcoat. But the traditional view is that one either wears one or the other. If your kilt fits you properly, you shouldn't need to wear a belt with a waistcoat, and it would be hidden by the waistcoat anyway. So it would be superfluous. In fact, it would create an unsightly bulge under your waistcoat. So the question which leaps to mind is "why would one want to wear a belt with a waistcoat?"

Now the wearing of a belt over the waistcoat is another matter entirely. It, too, is occasionally done. But those more knowledgeable than I would need to explain the hows or whys of doing that.

Tobus is right, of couse (as usual!). The thing is, now you know WHY you're not supposed to wear your belt with a waistcoat (because of the "supposed" unsightly bulge that it makes), YOU can decide whether you will wear it or not. If you put them both on, it feels comfortable, and there is no "unsightly bulge", then why not wear both? If the belt fits OK and is worn in the right place (at the top of the kilt) then no one will see it anyway. It's not really the right moment to show off that superb buckle, though!

In theory, you're not supposed to need to wear a belt with your kilt if your kilt was made for you. If I'm not wearing a waistcoat, I will always wear a belt because it looks (to me) as if something is missing if there is no belt. With a waistcoat it will depend on the kilt I am wearing. I have one kilt which is now slightly large on my waist (I've lost weight since I ordered it) so if I'm wearing that one, even with a waistcoat, then I'll wear my belt as well. Then there's always the case of the "off the rack" standard sized kilts that some people buy. Because not many people are standard sized, then a belt is often called for (even with a waistcoat).

So all in all, you shouldn't need to wear a belt with a waistcoat but, if you feel the need, or if you want to, then go ahead.

Edited to add: The wearing of a belt over the waistcoat is usually done when (normally in evening dress) one is wearing a dirk, to support the dirk, and then it is called a "dirk belt".

[Bobby Gordon]

Excellent, thanks for your input guys
Well the kilt's were home made by me, so they fit perfectly. So whatever the case the belts are purely for show. Just because the belts and buckles are awesome!
So when I got married we wore them under our waistcoats, but mine was barely visable because I've got a short torso. But I knew when I got to the reception I'd be taking off my jacket a waistcoat so hey presto, it would be there for all the see. I thought it would be better to wear it all day rather than carrying it around with me and putting it on in the evening. But you can see in the photo's (once I'm able to post them) that my brothers belts are clearly visible below their waistcoats, they must have longer torso's than me!