kilmarnock bonnet and argyll sutherland highlanders

[georgeetta]

I been looking for info on Uncle's uniform and bonnets they wore in this case 1958 Cyprus .

terms Kilmarnock-Balmoral Bonnet is a very mixed term I got soem great assiatcne for house of Labhran who posses military patterns to recreate the older bonnets they may have made under military contract ..it's not a fully finished issue . But i tought the specifics on bonnet termology are a benefit to new wearers to appreciate the military side of Scottish dress . I saw a Kilmarnock Bonnet properly termed in 1980's since then seems nobody in USA or Can . knew what I was talkign about ..unless you were an Arg Sutherland former soldier .

Kilms- are pretty cool they have a larger brim than what is usualy seen called a Balmoral ..Stewarton has a bonnet makngn museum to show 1700's 1800's bonnet making industry and talks about the 1700's cottage highland making by wifies ..vs a Stewarton Industrial set up Mill .

house of labhran response :
The Kilmarnock is the military style as worn by the Argyll's. The civilian pattern in the Highland style is a Balmoral. The Atholl bonnet is another variation and Lowland bonnet, Military TOS and Tam O Shanter are other variations. They are all slightly different. Then different regiments have variation on a style so a Black Watch balmoral is different from a civi Balmoral. The variations in regimental styles are laid down by the MOD ( Ministry of Defence ). I hope that clears up the issue of why some are called Kilmarnock's and some Balmorals etc.There are people selling things that are not aware of all the variations.

[OC Richard]

What you are saying is contrary to everything I've read and seen (but who knows? sometimes strange exceptions happen.)

Kilmarnock bonnets are larger than Balmoral bonnets, and were worn by Lowland regiments, as part of their Full Dress which included tartan pants and scarlet doublets. Often Kilmarnock bonnets were worn with a Blackcock tail.

I have never seen a photo of a member of The Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, or indeed any of the kilted Highland regiments of Scotland, wearing a Kilmarnock bonnet.

Around 1953 the Scottish regiments, who had not had anything dressier than khaki since 1914, were given a new No1 Dress uniform. The kilted Highland regiments were given dark blue Balmorals (in some photos they look more like TOS), the Lowland regiments Kilmarnock bonnets, as far as I know.

In other orders of dress the Argylls can often be seen wearing their traditional red & white diced Glengarries.

Here's a postcard I have showing the Black Watch wearing this post-1953 dress. The Argylls would have worn similar, in the 50s and 60s.



Here you can see several old photos showing Kilmarnock bonnets

http://www.google.com/search?q=king'...w=1920&bih=955

[macwilkin]

This web site has a picture of the Argyll Kilmarnock bonnet:

http://www.theargylls.co.uk/dress.php

T.

[OC Richard]

Yes I've seen photos of that short-lived mode of dress. I thought of those bonnets as looking more like a blocked Balmoral or TOS than a fullblown Kilmarnock bonnet (as worn by the Lowland regiments).

In The Uniforms and History of the Scottish Regiments by R Money Barnes, he states, on page 298

"The orders for No1 Dress specify the Balmoral Bonnet for Highlanders and the Kilmarmock Bonnet for Lowlanders."

He is discussing the very dress I'm talking about, the new No1 Dress introduced in the 1950s.

But hey, if they called them "Kilmarnock bonnets" in the regiment, I stand corrected.

[georgeetta]

Like I said I been tracking the Kilmarnock thing for 20 years ..nobody knew what I was talkign about ..all our WW2 Uncles are dead now ..a TOS was about same for all I guess ..even Uncle's Seaforths bonnet looked fairly big to today's civvy Balmoral . I had not thought of tracking the MOD on uniforms .. Uncle Bert started in KOSB adn only pic I have of him is ..in N Africa or east end in shorts and TOS agst a wall ..he used to say the guys put cardboard in their bonnet sto give the sharp edge look he was cokcing his tam way back off to side in pic .

Uncle David in 58 had all correct ..in the funeral pics on Argyll site ..in the procession the guys are all at attention and dress bonnets have many various looks and shapes based on the individuals -that surprised me . An Argyll or Army Scottish Regiment BBC documentary interviewed highland (1990's) privates from ..Lewis ..gael speakers ..at the end they 2 were on guard at Stirling Castle (headqrtrs) during winters flurries wearing Kilmarnocks and carrying FN's . I've seen some KOSB pics of 50's ..and they wear their's ..high and back not forward like I am used to seeing ..but I shoudl read up on them ..

kind of funny hearing Argylls and Sutherland being referred to as "lowland" !?!

it was nice of the House of Labhran to clear some of that up . Many guys have copied TOS's WW2 for reenactors and told how they pulled oldies apart ..or sites showing ladies making TOS"s during WW2 ..my Ma made underwear ..not as romantically Scottish national dress I guess I'm sure they fit perfectly though .

cheers
Dave

[georgeetta]

My 2 Uncles were in Argylls in 1958 ..you can go all over related Argyll books ..you will see the dress as Kilmarnock bonnet ..1 was kia Cyprus '58 ..

I have seen Hummel bonnets also called Kilmarnocks all thru late 1700's and early mid 1800's in various military boks and sites right or wrong ..like gun collectors call a longrifle a Kentucky Rifle any knowledgable person would know they are more correclty called a Pennsylvania rifle though many also started in Virginia early too ! So Kilmarnock sounds like they had a factory that mass produced a Tam shaped thing like in Tam O Shanter ..or for the military contract ..seen Frencha dn Indian War portraits up ward show a Hummel style ..so ..call a truck or a car ..a FORD !

according to House Labhran -specifically : there are even small particulars to military bonnets you being non industrial would be not aware of . Most folk'd say a Black Watch bonnet is a undiced Balmoral (as in same exact civvy pattern) ..sounded to me ..such was not the case .

Go on the Argylls site and you will see how large what they call a Kilmarnock is..likewise check out a KOSB bonnet or piper's bonnet with blackcock is ..you'll likewise see a difference .

This went on bits and flecks for 20 years .

I will send 2nd House Labhran repsonse .

there are lengthy sites showing bonnets for military ..they likewise did not completely clear this up .

liek I sadi in 1777 a Geman skected a Black Wach bonnet on soldier ..it was a tight Balmoral thing ..but in many French Indian War portraits ..you see a Tam style OR Hummel as headgear ..with the famous proctice of adding ostritch feathers that engulf the Hummel makign leading to the feather bonnet as I understand it .

[georgeetta]

kilmarnocks ..house of labhran repsonse #2 :

The Kilmarnock is the military style as worn by the Argyll's. The civilian pattern in the Highland style is a Balmoral. The Atholl bonnet is another variation and Lowland bonnet, Military TOS and Tam O Shanter are other variations. They are all slightly different. Then different regiments have variation on a style so a Black Watch balmoral is different from a civi Balmoral. The variations in regimental styles are laid down by the MOD ( Ministry of Defence ). I hope that clears up the issue of why some are called Kilmarnock's and some Balmorals etc.There are people selling things that are not aware of all the variations.


Do you really want a Kilmarnock bonnet with no dicing or do you want a civi style as you were not in the A&S.


Let me know what you are looking for and we will advise.

[theborderer]

The KOSB bonnet was certainly large. They had a metal wire ring which when placed in the Bonnet gave it a certail "space" look. We always called it a Balmoral.

[georgeetta]

can you detail pic that bonnet ??
what was that about wire ? in the brim ??

there's a stewarton bonnet museum site abotu bonnets ..neat ..the TAM bonnet of 1800 ..was a big floppy farmers thing to keep off the rain .

th
d

[theborderer]

can you detail pic that bonnet ??
what was that about wire ? in the brim ??


th
d

The circle of wire was bigger than the bonnet body and it had to be worked in slowly. Because it was bigger it made the bonnet bend fore and aft